To think sexism is still the most prevailing issue in the world

[OdeToDiazepam]

At work late yesterday and was listening to the conversation between two of the chefs

Both men aged in their early twenties

One of them asks the other if he's heard of Sarah Payne.. I think he had some point to make about her law but the other one claimed not to know of it.
The first one says with a smirk oh she was this little girl that got raped and killed and left in some woods..

The second man interrupts and says 'you know every primate species known does the same thing' in a manner that suggests this is a frequent thing for him to say

The other one goes oh I know yeah.

One of them has a daughter and they were perfectly aware I was with them and could hear them.

Later on in the conversation regarding the ghostbusters movie
'If you're a woman it's alright I guess
Women are generally inferior.

These weren't said as jokes these were matter of fact.

Even if these were said as a joke
Even if not all men etc etc

Replace the word woman with black. With Indian. Your reaction? The polices reaction?

Women are being attacked abused and killed at huge levels by male violence. Women are subjected to hate crime and misogyny and discrimination

We all know this but have you ever thought.. no one cares

No one in government no policy.. the police? No. It's not fashionable.

We're a group being subjected to this shit and yet if we take issue with it were subject to ostracism, being ridiculed,

Like I said.

'Black people are generally inferior'
That ok?

Really playing on my mind this morning

As for wider context

Yes around the world women are subjected to atrocious levels of violence and discrimination. Far worse that gay people and yet it's not fashionable so gets no concern or virtue signalling because it's 'uncool'

Yanbu.

Yes you are being unreasonable. Sexism is one of many ongoing problems in the world. Personally I think war and military conflict is far more pressing an issue. You are also BU to assert that it's 'uncool' to be concerned about sexism.

As a matter of interest did you intervene in this conversation you describe? and if so, what did you say/do?

It is uncool yes. I know how myself and other women have been treated for raising the issue

Look at the fawning and the attention that lgbt is receiving from young people companies and the government. Yes in some countries they are persecuted funnily enough the same countries where no one bats an eye to women being treated the same and worse!

I didn't intervene no.

I felt intimidated. I don't know these men well. I was on my own with them. One of them is very big and domineering and like many women I've experienced male violence and sexual violence.

So no I didn't feel safe to challenge it at that time is that ok?
Because it's fine for every other protected characteristic to genuinely feel afraid and seek help
But women get this victim blaming shit and tbh I've cracked now

Yanbu in any way. And you're right worms rights not being killed or beaten etc isn't zeightgeist (sic) right now and that's really shit

So if you think sex is treated the same as other characteristics let's think about this then

Replace women with black. I could call the police and report it to them. I could inform my employer who no doubt react swiftly.

Say I call the police over that comment. Despite every other protected characteristic being subject to hate crime laws, sex is not one of them. So I'm pretty sure they'd tell me they couldn't do anything.

I go to my manager. Considering what my managers are like and no hr if they did say something to him then word would get around and I'd be ridiculed and ostracised by my colleagues

I would have told them they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

It's horrible when you wake up to how Men really think about us.

This is the real reason why older Women aren't liked, we've woken up to it and don't hold back in vocalising/challenging it.

Women and children suffer nore during War/Famine/Natural disasters because of this.

We still shouldn't need rape as a war/punishment crime campaigning for.

Look at the defence of Oxfam workers exploiting Women.

We take Gay male asylum seekers but the Women in those countries face the same issues. We call to boycott countries who treat Gay Men badly while Women are stoned to death for wanting to leave the house.

YANBU.

It's not 'uncool'. It's just that we live in a patriarchal society that teaches us all men > women. Most people are inherently sexist even without realising it because we're taught to be. The men you overheard were vile and there are plenty of people around who either agree with them or think making sexist jokes is funny even without agreeing with them.
Hopefully one day things will be different, I think pointing it out at any opportunity can only help.

You're right.

Just look at how feminism/the women's rights movement is criticised and looked down on. The civil rights and gay rights movements have never been vilified in the same way.

Sexism is so deeply engrained, it's almost the status quo.

I have a young sister who spends a lot of time on social media etc

They spend so much time virtue signalling for lgbt because that's what's 'in' at the minute

I asked the other day what about women? What about domestic violence?

Shrug of the shoulders

Exactly and they have us where they want us because of the associations engrained with feminists and feminism

You are not in the least bit unreasonable. Something needs to change and soon. Only last week I complained to my daughter's school about the teacher ignoring the boys cat calling her as she walks in. I made the exact same point, if these boys were shouting racial or homophobic slurs, they'd (quite rightly) be stamped on from a great height. As it is, summing my daughter up in terms of her sexually attractive (or unattractive if done ironically) features is no big deal, because clearly her value lies in the male gaze and, you know, "boys will be boys", and they've got all this testosterone bubbling away inside them, poor confused things.

Thankfully, other boys in the class stood up for my daughter (so there's some hope), however, the (male) teacher has no recollection of the event occurring so there's been no follow up. Of course he doesn't remember, this 'banter' is so everyday, why would he even look up or notice?

We call to boycott countries who treat Gay Men badly while Women are stoned to death for wanting to leave the house.
Gay man are thrown off buildings just for being gay, and if they're still alive afterwards they're stoned to death. I think that's worse than being alive but stuck indoors.
Yes sexism is shit, yes it shouldn't still go on, but that doesn't mean you should be ranking it as 'better or worse' than other behaviour.
And you might want to think about issues like poverty, war, and health before you declare sexism the most prevailing issue in the world. There are women in Syria who would probably give everything they had to be listening to your sexist colleagues if it meant they no longer had to fear for their lives....

By 'fawning', you mean rainbows and lip service and social media pictures, most likely for money, while doing fuck all that actually helps LGBT people, often harming and ostracising actual LGBT people who don't toe the loving the rainbow lines. We're not in, a commercial-approved image of us that doesn't have anything to do with most of us is in - is that what you want for women (which would include some LGBT people)?

That you're pitting groups against each other is U and while I agree that all protected characteristics should be covered by (better written and enforced than we have now) hate laws - you've forgotten age & marriage and civil partnership discrimination which are also not covered (I guess pregnancy and maternity could be covered under sexism in also not being included). And plenty of people covered by hate laws would be intimidated and feel they couldn't go to the police and HR - and many would be right that it would be unlikely those kinds of comments would go anywhere and would be ridiculed for it. Even LGBT people.

It's hard to quantify what is the 'most' prevailing issue in the world. I think trying to make it about 'most' is at best useless and more likely harmful in trying to deal with the issues in the world. It's one of many issues that deserves attention, that we can hope to better than other primates, but people absolutely say the same similar thing about other groups without repercussions.

That your sister isn't lining up her social media in line with your ethical stances doesn't actual mean anything, no one is going to do everything. Social media is massive and there are plenty of feminists on social media, we all tailor it to our usage. My Instagram feed is full of fitness people, academics, and nature photos, I don't think that's a representation of the whole site or people's opinions.

It is the general point.. that people don't value the lives of women and the abuse directed towards women

As for the comment about the police
Yes that's something very familiar with
You don't think women are afraid to go to the police too?
Women who are regularly killed by ex partners after police involvement, stigma towards rape and dv victims and the travesty of justice if it even gets to court

I've had a man tell me the police won't care

Guess what he was right. They didn't

There’s are links between education girls and women and combating climate change. There are some theories that a more equal or even matriarchal society would lead to less war.

ideas.ted.com/want-to-fight-climate-change-educate-a-girl/

I think combating sexism would lead to a more equal society for everyone.

I'm aware many women are afraid to go to the police and HR, feel that they won't care and end up being right - and so are many people of either sex protected under hate laws. They don't make anything magically better as you keep declaring.

LGBT people, Black people and Indian people you've thrown under the bus repeatedly, that they could have done X that you can't for these sexist remarks - many would feel the same way and be just as right.

I mean, age is a protected characteristic that isn't under hate laws, but kids are protected in other legislation in the UK and most countries - and I and many people can tell you about our experiences of police and other official people who did not give a fuck when reported when we were being abused. My mother attempted to murder me on more than one occasion, once in a vehicle where the police actually showed up while she was doing it, but no one cared, I was just a dramatic barely teen who needed to behave better. I've seen men attacked who got the whole "but they didn't leave a mark so..." BS that I did as an abused kid (shocker, abusers know how to beat up people without visible marks). The system as it is sucks for everyone, and cuts are just making it harder for any in the system that does care to get anything done.

My argument isn't that sexism isn't a problem or that police may not care about sexism - police are people and some people care and some don't - it's that the issue affects all the people you keep saying it doesn't (many who are also women) and trying to make it some sort of hierarchy oppression olympics with women on top isn't going to help anyone and for many of us, we can't divide being female from the other attributes and deal with abuse of all of them together in a way that can't be neatly divided. It's not about 'most', I don't think that can really be quantified in any meaningful way, but it is one of many issues prevailing today that it would be better if it was better dealt with in many ways.

This is the real reason why older Women aren't liked, we've woken up to it and don't hold back in vocalising/challenging it.

This. We get older, work it out from experience, abusive men hate that. They love young, naive women who they can more easily abuse. They also really hate mumsnet etc, because we're telling the younger women so they don't find out the hard way, like we had to. They really hate that.

Misogyny seems more prevalent now than it was and my theory is that men are no longer allowed to deride or even physically attack homosexuals and politically/demographically minor ethnicities, so have turned all their venom - including physical attacks - onto women.

Yanbu unreasonable to be angry, but is it THE most important issue in the world?Ii think the main issue is that the world is full of knobheads. Sexists, racists, climate change deniers, brexiteers, religious fundamentalists, stupid people are everywhere.

I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when they decided to make hate laws for every other characteristic but not sex. How did they justify it?

How do they continue to justify it?

I'm bloody angry about the shit we still have to deal with.

Yes OP, you are right. For instance, its not cool to question a headline act at Glastonbury, who refers on stage, to “sluts” and giving his mates’ girlfriend a “facial.” Everyone in the audience dances and cheers him along. But imagine if rather than “slut”, he had used the “f” word. There would have been total outrage in behalf of LGBT (and rightly so). Or imagine if there was a racial slur on the same stage. Would people have clapped and cheered then? Even if I tuped those words here, the post would be deleted. But I can type “slut” because that’s ok - it’s only women.

As women are making progress in many spheres, there is s backlash in two fronts it seems to me -

1. the rise of fundamentalist Islam to keep women in their place
2. the new zeitgeist of normalising a porn culture which all young women are meant to be cool with and even embrace as “liberating female sexuality”.