to go to Australia for the weekend?!

[HufflepuffHarpy]

My best friend (male if relevant) is getting married in the autumn. I'm in the UK (where we both grew up) he now lives in Australia.

I desperately want to go to the wedding.

It will cost £1000 for the flight plus accomodation etc over there which is in no way small money.

I have 4DC so would be asking my parents (very hands on babysitters, have had them for me and DH to go on holiday etc) to have the DC (all under 10) while DH is at work.

I would leave on a thursday AM flight and get back tuesday pm. SO literally fly in for the wedding, the day after and then back home.

Am I being totally crazy to consider this?! (Haven't actually asked DH yet!!)

I've done Hong Kong for a weekend for similar. Was great - the flight was like a holiday in itself - no kids, wine on tap, endless box sets, and uninterrupted sleep!

Why does it matter if your friend is male?

This is an argument dreamed up by those who wish to ignore the damage they are willingly inflicting on the planet.

No it’s a fact.

I’ve damaged the planet in many ways but my two children are by far the worst thing I could have done to it.

@myrtle - cheers, right. Thanks for pointing that out. No one comment the op has already booked tickets!

ah, you're welcome decor!

I think a better solution would be an overall environmental credit system. With flights as one part of that, so if you want to prioritise them you could.

Take it further.

Big increase in the cost of flights. Let's say £10,000 minimum return to Australia.
Limit of say the equivalent of one long haul flight every two years.
Those who wished to fly more frequently could buy flights from those who hadn't used their credits. Those qualifying to sell could receive this income on top of any state benefits without penalty, if applicable.

my two children are by far the worst thing I could have done to it.

If. there. are. no. children. there. is. no. more. damage. to. the. planet.

Thank you to all of you who enjoyed the Jason Donovan story 😊 It was merely a little bon mot from a little old lady who once did a similar trip and was responding to the original posting which I thought, perhaps foolishly, I was somewhat qualified to comment upon.

It was not meant to provoke any negative reaction nor to stir up the "my god, I can't believe you haven't read, internalised and written a thought-provoking thesis that takes into account every one of the thousand intermittent often boring and banal posts" brigade.

I really hope that the OP has a brilliant trip and that she bounces back better than I did from what is going to be, from my experience, a very exhausting trip.

And the very best to the newly weds.

Humans will always have children, this won't change. But we don't HAVE to fly, or eat beef, or wrap everything in plastic, or have total reliance on fossil fuels. These things can change.

I’m not sure anyone can undo having children, but we can stop flying. Besides the OP has four children.

Totally agree dragon

if. there. are. no. children. there. is. no. more. damage. to. the. planet.

Yes. Isn’t that the point?

Of course no more children isn’t a realistic aim, but halting population growth is.

I’m not sure anyone can undo having children

Of course not. But you can own and take responsibility for your actions

Besides the OP has four children.

I know that. But presumably there’s more to this thread than just sticking it to the OP. Or is there?

no more children isn’t a realistic aim

Exactly.

I’m not following your point. Do you agree that limited population is?

Interesting

We are falling below replacement as time goes on

But presumably there’s more to this thread than just sticking it to the OP. Or is there?

No, there isn't.

It's only what the OP is doing that's up for discussion and criticism - we can't bring in anything else anyone else does!

Just Skype ! The fights will bore you to tears !

Do you agree that limited population is?
Ideally population growth should be limited.

But the point is that none of this matters if everyone stops having children. Some form of life would flourish instead of the human race.

My gripe is that you say the worst thing you could have done is to have two children. I fear this makes you disregard the damage you are causing in other ways and not make as great an effort as you could to limit it. You say to yourself, after all you've already done plenty of damage, might as well carry on, nothing else is as bad.

i fear this makes you disregard the damage you are causing in other ways and not make as great an effort as you could to limit it.

Not at all. I’m very aware.

However I’m also aware that I don’t have the moral high ground over others on this point,

Everyone is implicit in climate change as we all live in this system fuelled by fossil fuels, and within economies driven by growth and debt. It’s not our fault, but we MUST now do our best to slow our own extinction.

We are not to blame, as powerful oil and gas companies have been denying climate change for a long time. But, we have a responsibility to act, now.
We must all look at how we can reduce our footprint wherever possible. Anything non-essential needs to go. Not flying is probably the easiest way to reduce carbon emissions dramatically for most people. Reducing driving, buying local, reusing and repairing, and becoming vegan or at least avoiding beef and dramatically reducing meat and dairy, will also make a big difference. A long haul flight is the worst of all these things. And let’s face it, most people travel for leisure. Flying for holidays, weddings, hen dos, visiting family etc is a luxury... one we just can’t afford to indulge in anymore. We need to examine our choices, and stop putting our own selfish wants first.

The hypocrisy arguments need to end. They are unhelpful and in constructive. It is basically a way of silencing people as every single human is implicit in this. But we must speak out and challenge each other. The perfect should not be the enemy of the good.

Not that I’d encourage loads of children any more

It’ll be painful - demographic time bomb, haven’t looked into it yet - but hopefully environmentally better

There’s lots of silencing on this thread. Better to have the discussion

Unconstructive: typo

Absolutely the discussion had to be had and people need to make changes. But human nature being what it is, we also have to consider people’s need to feel that they’re being treated fairly.

Plane travel is more important to some people than others. So if for example, I ha e family living abroad and I also happen to be childless and vegan then I’m not going to take too kindly to having my travel restricted to the same degree as a meat eater who’s had loads of kids.

Which is why I think a system of environmental ‘credits’, covering all environmentally damaging behaviour should be considered.

I think this thread highlights one of the problems with discussions about climate change, there is often a lot of 'well you've done X so what's wrong with me doing Y'. I felt this way pre-child and would rationalise taking flights on the basis that I didn't have kids so why should I stop flying? A position I am ashamed of now. I think I felt guilty as I was aware how shit flying was for the environment, and therefore would become defensive about doing something I knew was crap.

Not blaming or shaming is important I think, few people are going to be won over by being made to feel bad, and can become even more entrenched in their position.