AIBU to include them in his life or leave them out?

[Soconfusedandlost]

Ok long story so apologies in advance

I (33, DD2) met ex (43, DS25, DS23, DD18) in October 2017 and he said he had been split with his wife for 6 months. We dated November till New Years Day when he pushed for us to be a couple. In March I found out that I was pregnant. I was on the the pill, he had told me he had a vasectomy and we had already had sexual health checks.

The night I told him I was pregnant, he told me he had cheated with his ex wife ONS. I said to him to go back to her if that made him happy as we had always said that we were not serious, was just a bit of fun that was "exclusive". He swore blind he didnt want her and cried as he begged me to stay.

I wanted an abortion originally and he get saying how great a baby would be as his kids were grown up and his DD was pregnant at time. I then went on a family holiday that was booked before I met him. Whilst away, he alternated between saying how much he missed me and was counting the time till I was home, then saying he was struggling with the idea of the baby.

When I came home, we agreed to get an abortion and then he messaged saying that he wasn't ready for a relationship and then cut contact. I went to the clinic and found out I was further along than thought, 10 weeks instead of 4 weeks. This made it a medical procedure than just taking a pill.

I panicked and got advice from close family members and we decided to keep the baby. Told him and he said he didn;t want us to be together but would stand by the baby which we agreed. In between, I was told that he was back with his ex-wife. He kept denying this until she messaged me, saying I got pregnant to trap him (FYI a semi-alcoholic who works cash in hand to get around the system is not my idea of a commitment guy) and saying they never split up, I was just being used by him and he never loved me etc. She also said that she pitied my daughter and the baby to be for being my children as I was obviously a shit mother.

During the pregnancy, she kicked off and sent me abuse whenever I put anything on SM about the baby despite me not having a public profile or acknowledging them in any way so obviously someone was reporting back to her what I put on mine. All i put on there was the scans and when my daughter was sweet about the baby to be.

Towards the end of the pregnancy, he then began messaging me stating he wanted 50% contact and he wanted the baby to have his surname and he wants a DNA test.

I agreed to the DNA test but refused the surname as I dont think you can demand that if you want reassurance that its your baby. This went on the last 10 weeks of the pregnancy, having the same arguments over and over again despite me saying that we had polyhydramnia as the pregnancy was difficult. Throughout the pregnancy Id asked to meet to discuss and sort out arrangements but he had refused until I was ill and then he wanted to meet sp I refused. He was insisting on the 50% contact from birth inclding taking the baby while a couple of days old to meet his family etc.

My son was born following a week in hospital as we were at risk of cervical prolapse which can severely harm the baby. I let him know the baby was born and then 3 days later, he replied to ask when he could come and do the DNA test. He was demanding that his wife came despite the stress she put me through in the pregnancy so I refused. In the end, his daughter messaged me saying she wanted her daughter to know my son so could he do the test. I agreed so he came to the hospital (we had gone back in due to jaundice). He refused to even look at his son saying he didn't want to build a bond in case.

He then contacted me 2 weeks after to say that he wanted to register the baby, I said I had already done this. He then got angry and asked when he could pick the baby up. I said that i thought best he go through a solicitor as I didn't feel 50% was appropriate in the circumstances.

My son was then hospitalised for most of January due to low weight problems. He has special milk and we still meet a dietician and consultant regularly to try and help him. I made him aware both times and asked for family medical history but he ignored me until pressured and then said they had no problems. This is the entirety of the contact.

My son is now 8 months old and is the friendliest little man. He is a little small in size and developmentally behind the standard but everyone who meets him loves him cos he has the biggest grin for everyone. He just wants to be everyone's friend and even the cleaners in the hospital stop to chat to him because he is such a happy pleasant dude. My daughter is dotty over him and they are so sweet together. I feel like I should offer my ex a chance to have contact with him, mainly for my son to meet his brother and sister and his niece who is 3 months older than him.

My big questions are:
1 - Was i unreasonable?
2- Do I offer him contact now things are calm and hormone-free?
3 - Should I offer contact directly to his daughter to meet her brother given her message at the time of the DNA test?
4 - How do I go about any of this?

Wish there was a like option on here like Facebook. Thank you for your advice @justilou1 hopefully they will continue to ignore us and will do so if they see us in the street. That was one of my main worries as the wife seems like someone who would shout the odds in the street which would mortify me

Does his wife know what you look like? I wouldn't worry too much about her shouting at you in the street though, the situation might never crop up. You have enough on your plate to worry about, with your son's health, so just concentrate on that.

He/they might pop up from time to time, demanding contact, so just keep reiterating that he needs to take it to court. He's not on the BC, so he's got no parental responsibility, which gives you extra protection.

All the best.

I agree with everyone else. Do nothing to contact them. Why would you want to bring that drama to your door. You offered for him to get access through a solicitor (which imo in this situation was the right thing) and he hasn't bothered to do anything about it so it shows that he isn't interested in his son.

If his wife does start shouting in the street, keep quiet and keep walking. She will be the one who looks stupid.

Thank you everyone. I'm gonna follow the advice and wait for him to make another request and then refer him again to the solicitor or mediation. The only other family member to request is the daughter and she hasn't asked since before the DNA test so will not respond to that either

She does know what I look like as the messages she sent were through Facebook. If I see her, we will avoid and hope for the best

Are you sure they were separated? Are you sure he had a ONS with his ex, rather than sex with his wife he still actually lived with and who wasnt aware they had separated?

If so, of course that means he's an arsehole, not you, as you believed him to be separated.

He sounds toxic and has likely created a toxic family system, having his pregnant daughter doing his bidding and sending his hurting wife out to do same. It's interesting that he thought your pregnancy was great because his daughter was also pregnant. Most people would, these days, see that as slightly generationally inappropriate and, although still happy with the pregnancies, wouldn't pose that timing as a plus. I wonder if he felt that his daughter was getting too much attention from her pregnancy and it was time for the spotlight to be back on him? Then the potential divorce chickens came home to roost and he needed to rapidly walk your pregnancy back, with concern over his social standing if it came out that his marriage broke due to him getting OW (not that you knew) pregnant.

Google narcissism, triangulation, engulfing, toxic family systems and grey rock technique. Engage a very good solicitor, so that you are prepared for child arrangements, if and when that should occur.

Tldr: 🚩🚩🚩 Run away from these nutcases like you arse is on fire. 🔥🔥🔥 Save your child, save yourself.

@picsinred wife has said they were separated but only briefly and were still sleeping together for all except like 6 weeks of us knowing each other. She says that when he said it was a ONS, they were back together but she was aware of me and he was trying to break up with me but I wasn't having it according to him.

Either way, it is toxic and weird and awkward AF.

So he lied to both of you. He's a jerk. He's continued to lie to you, and he's obviously been lying to his family. They all assume you're after him for maintenance (obviously you're not) and you're going to ruin their perfect (ha!) life in their little village (of idiots). He's had the DNA test and done nothing with it. Why? Because anything further involves spending money. Block everyone involved on facebook and other social media. Lock down the privacy on all your social media accounts. (I wouldn't put any pictures of your kids on anything anyway - but that's just me....) You don't know who's been sharing info with them already, so don't give them anything to play with. Don't make any announcements, just be too "busy" and get on with your life without the social media aspect. (It's so much better for your mental health and for your kid's development anyway!) If they contact you wanting to see your son, refer them to a solicitor. They won't do it because they don't want to spend the money. They won't be arsed enforcing any "legal rights" because they don't want to suffer the financial consequences (like maintenance and legal fees). I think you need to re-shape how you see yourself though. You are acting as though you were the "mistress" and you have done something shameful, when in fact, you have had something shameful done to you. Stop expecting something terrible to happen and enjoy your happy, healthier little guy and your DD and hold your head up high. Be proud of yourself. Deflect any potential gossip by behaving impeccably. If someone shouts at you, it reflects on them. How YOU react reflects on you.

Also, don't contact him any more expecting anything. He's not driving the bus, his wife is, and she's furious. She's blaming you for everything instead of him. They are not going to behave logically or calmly or put your little boy's needs first when they see you through her eyes.

Weirdly I get her anger. We both know he lied to both of us but she has to blame me so she can be with him. I don't blame her for that part. It's his ambivalence to her anger that annoys me. I feel he should've said OK we are not being involved or told her to butt out or just not acted like he was the poor victim.

Tbh I do feel ashamed and embarassed. I'm 33 so an accidental baby shouldn't have happened. Also how did I not see the lies?

Stop beating yourself up. We believe what we want to believe. Also, people have a great way of convincing us.... he probably got you when you were vulnerable. He doesn't sound like much of a catch when you have the full "real" picture, but I bet that's not how he sold himself at all.

That's true @justilou1 got to look at the positives and move forward

They all sound unpleasant and immature. More fool her for believing him. Sod the lot of them, including the daughter who was blatantly a flying monkey for her dad.

Thanks @NauseousMum I feel he is better off without them but then I do have moments where I wonder if I'm doing the wrong thing, is he missing out on family stuff? These are the bonding years and he can't bond with them and part of me thinks it's my fault

I am taking everyone's advice and not encourage contact with them. If they request it, there will have to be a plan in place as my son only knows my family and is a bit overattached to me as we spent so long in hospital with no one else around

OK so I also posed this question in the lone parent forum and they also lean towards not offering contact, if any of the family request then to go through solicitors and that he is a rampant arseholes (my words, not theirs).

However they keep referring to CMS so wanted to ask what is known about this as I've never considered this -
1 - if he doesn't declare employment/works cash in hand, then I'm entitled to nothing?
2 - if he pays, does that entitle him to contact or tie me to him in any way?
3 - doesn't any amount received in maintenance get taken off your Universal credit anyway so I'd be no better off?

Just want to make sure that I'm not being stupid or pig headed and wasting £20 just to prove a point that would be fruitless anyway

I think that the baby's father and his wife are just awful treating you like that throughout your pregnancy.

Head is saying... do it on your own and stay away from poison. Heart is saying...baby has a right to know his father and it could turn out ok in the end.

@sl07 this is my predicament. My heart feels one way, head feels another and when I look at my son, I feel like there is no right answer. If I leave them out, will he grow up angry that his dad and brothers and sister are so close and I didn't try for him? Or if I try and it goes tits up, will it ruin his life? And what if we all come at this like grown ups, things go well and we do Co parent including his wife and he gets to have a complete if slightly weird family? Logically the chances of this are very low but will he be upset that I didn't try.

And also if my son deals with his father when he is grown up and finds a different person to the man he is now, will he blame me for keeping them apart? Despite a half assed attempt at conga t, he can prove he did want to see my son so am I a bad person?

This head pickling gets worse the later at night it gets and leads to a very real spiral as you can tell (apologies)

also if my son deals with his father when he is grown up and finds a different person to the man he is now, will he blame me for keeping them apart

You can only make your decisions based on what you know now, not fantastical worries of things that may (or more likely not) happen in twenty or more years' time. And protecting your child from toxic, controlling people shows good judgement in the child's best interests.

Besides which, you're not "keeping them apart", he's a grown man and perfectly capable of choosing to behave like a decent human being if he so wished. Just as he could choose to take the steps to have contact with his child if he wished. Stop making yourself responsible for his choices and his actions and let him take responsibility for his own behaviour.

You seem to have a very low and harsh opinion of yourself. You don't seem to find it easy to trust your own instincts or protect your boundaries either.

Do you think that might be why even after being treated so abysmally for some reason you're still obsessing about running after such a vile, manipulative, controlling person and trying to invite him into your son's life? Never mind why you're calling yourself a bad person instead of the abusive man in this scenario.

Maybe have a look at this to shore yourself up for the future: www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

CMS would take 15% of his earnings, minus deductions for other dependent children or if he has your baby overnight. If he was on benefits they would take a few pounds a week.

You are right though, if he has no declared income not much they can do. He can just say he is being supported by his wife. You could ask them to investigate but don't know how far you would get.

The one potential good thing would be if he denied parentage then he would have to do a DNA test or be presumed the father. An official DNA test takes away any chance he has of denying he is the father in the future.

I think you really need to work out what you want here. If you are wanting money from him, it is going to involve a lot of stress and running around and it is highly unlikely to get results.
If you are wanting him to step up and be a parent, I think he’s made his intentions very clear by being completely absent.
Also, his kids are grown up now and he is a grandfather. He has “done his time” in the babyhood trenches and is not in that phase of life anymore (in his mind). You know you were a fun diversion from his shitty marriage. He has shown how much YOU mean to him also by his complete absence. Don’t look for him to do the right thing by you either. This man’s conscience is firmly connected to his first family, not with you or your baby. I’m sorry to spell this out so bluntly, but you seem to want him to feeling something he isn’t going to feel. Let him go. Move on. Even if you have to move away.

I would keep away. Sounds like a right circus. Nobody wants to invite chaos into their family.

I would stay away from them. They sound like a bad soap opera with all their carry on. Why expose an innocent child to all that when you don't have to.

By telling the father to go the legal route, you have shown a willingness to keep the channels open but have put the ball in his court. HE is the one choosing not to take it further, so you can move forward with a clear conscience as you haven't cut off contact; he has.

UC doesn't take child maintenance into account, BUT, as he doesn't work (as far as CMS/DWP/tax man etc, are concerned), he has no income to pay it, so you won't get anything.

I've read on here, that paying maintenance does not mean he can have contact. The two are completely separate.

I'd stay well away.