To think that school should be able to say something

[GhostHoward]

...although I'm not sure what you'd say.

I work part time in a reception class, as a SED one to one. I previously did lunch duty, so know all the kids quite well. There are a few with bad teeth, but the little girl in question makes my heart ache. They were rotten at the beginning of the year, but now, they've all but disintegrated. Another child, with well brushed pearly whites, was telling me how he had a wobbly tooth, and she piped up "my tooth fell out when I ate an apple yesterday" and pointed at her upper front tooth, which whilst still there, was one brown 2mm nub beyond the gum line. What she was saying was that part of her tooth broke off. How she's not in intense pain I don't know....

But school can't say anything. There was a dentist that came to see the whole class earlier in the year, but it was an opt in thing, so I don't know if she got seen. Schools aren't allowed to tell you your child has headlice, so telling them their teeth need serious care is also off the table. I've never seen a mouth like hers...child or adult, and she's five years old.

Why can't schools say when there are issues? Could it be upgraded to a safeguarding issue?

I’d say it counts as negligent.
Speak to the schools safe guarding lead.

That's horrible. Don't they report it to SS? Surely it's a form of neglect. At least the parents could get some support.

That sounds like medical neglect and would this be reportable. But I’m not an officially trained mandatory reporter so I can’t be certain.

I don’t know where you are OP but where I am we have designated child protection co-ordinators and we can access school nursing colleagues.

We often make referrals for poor dental hygiene.

I think schools dont say directly to the parents because it's not their role. That's what ss are for. I know your example is extreme but if I had school calling me because they noticed something they (untrained in that particular area) decided was a parenting fail I would be likely to react negatively. They should be able to report to ss who keep an overall picture of each child's situation and act where they ( trained professionals) seem necessary.

Of course the school can say something. It’s neglect and a safeguarding issue and needs to be reported to SS as such.

Thank you, I will on Monday.
I've spoken to other staff about the issue before, and was told that they've seen lots of families from the same culture have similar teeth (This was when they were brown but not disintegrating). I just can't sit comfortably with it. If they're rotten she's at risk of sepsis.

I don't actually know why I haven't gone straight to the head or safeguarding lead before. IABU.

Would definitely discuss with safeguarding lead and consider MASH referral (you could even do this yourself anonymously).

Such visible neglect concerns me as what is going on to have caused the decay initially, is stopping her accessing appropriate healthcare, and, what else is happening to her that can't be seen so easily? 😣

Schools are definitely allowed to intervene with things like this. Staff should complete a wellbeing concern form (or whatever the policy is at your school), which should be passed to the named person in charge of safeguarding.

Incidentally they are also allowed to tell you your child has head lice, it's now just frowned upon to announce to the parent body at large that there's lice in the class.

In my school this would be picked up by our DSL and parents would be asked to take them to a dentist. We would follow up with the school nurse speaking to parents too.

Poor girl I worked on a children's day surgery unit for a while, most of the kids on the dental list had entirely preventable issues. There was a an approx 5 year old having 14 teeth out due to decay

Dental issues like you describe in young children is an indication of neglect, and it should be raised in line with your schools/LA safeguarding protocols.

Of course there could be other factors at play, if she has certain medical conditions etc, but most of the time it's due to poor dental hygiene.

Although you can't discuss it with the parents, you can take it further and SS can look into their home life.

Schools aren't allowed to tell you your child has headlice, so telling them their teeth need serious care is also off the table. I've never seen a mouth like hers...child or adult, and she's five years old.

This simply isn't true.

I work in a school in a Safeguarding role. I have had many, many conversations with parents over the years about their child's headlice, body odour, lack of dental hygiene, you name it! Its not always easy to raise these things but the welfare of the child is paramount so we can't just ignore it. If a child is coming to school crawling with headlice or their teeth are crumbling then that's potentially evidence of neglect and schools have a duty to act.

My sons preschool was in a deprived area and they all had their own tooth brushes at nursery. They would get kids to brush while they were on nursery. Could school do something similar?

My friend's son bumped his head she got called to school and also told he had head lice! No not telling him iyswim. She came to my house and said she can't see anything in his head - and said look here and the eggs and then checked her and told her she also had them!

I think you need to tell the safe guarding people poor child.

Thank you all. I realise how shit I've been, not pushing the issue when I've mentioned it to other staff. It's always been brushed off (totally not a pun) as a cultural thing not cleaning baby teeth. I've only today seen how bad her mouth has got, since moving to one day a week.

I'll be going to talk to someone on Monday.

At our school this would be regarded as a safeguarding issue. It is a sign of neglect in the same way that repeated untreated lice are.

@MinisterforCheekyFuckery

This simply isn't true.

I work in a school in a Safeguarding role. I have had many, many conversations with parents over the years about their child's headlice, body odour, lack of dental hygiene, you name it! Its not always easy to raise these things but the welfare of the child is paramount so we can't just ignore it. If a child is coming to school crawling with headlice or their teeth are crumbling then that's potentially evidence of neglect and schools have a duty to act.

I've personally asked people at school about this and they say we don't tell individual parents. We have to send a letter out to all parents in the class (This is arguably why one year has had such bad head lice all year...they know the culprits who start it and don't treat it, but don't say outright).
It fucking sucks.
This more so. But I will be going further with this.

I think schools dont say directly to the parents because it's not their role. That's what ss are for.

It absolutely is part of a schools role. They have a duty of care to each child and are there to support their overall development, not just their learning. Schools have a responsibility to monitor and respond to the physical and emotional health needs of their students. If I was to call Children's Services to report that a child has bad teeth the first thing they would say was "well, have you advised the parents that they need to take them to a dentist?" If the parents point blank refused or repeatedly said they would go but didn't or there were other concerns then they may get involved but in the first instance they would expect that we as a school would have a conversation with the parents.

Nothing to add except I can’t believe this is happening so often that there are all these comments. Poor kids

It's neglect yes the school can report to social services though a softer approach to the parents could be tried. I don't understand how people can let their kids teeth rot, it's so easy not to

Thank you all. I realise how shit I've been, not pushing the issue when I've mentioned it to other staff. It's always been brushed off (totally not a pun) as a cultural thing not cleaning baby teeth. I've only today seen how bad her mouth has got, since moving to one day a week.

Don't be so hard on yourself! You haven't been "shit" at all, you have raised concerns and you trusted your colleagues to advise you appropriately. Unfortunately, there seems to be an issue within the school around unwillingness to challenge parents or highlight issues that could be sensitive. That's not your fault, it's something that needs to be addressed by SLT as it will almost certainly lead to failures to safeguard vulnerable children if it is allowed to continue. There are no "cultural" factors that excuse abuse/neglect of children and concerns about appearing racially or culturally insensitive should never prevent professionals from reporting their concerns. I have worked with parents who have done very damaging things to their children supposedly in the name of culture, tradition and/or religion. In most cases parents can be supported to understand why their actions (or inaction as the case may be) are detrimental. But sadly I have also known children end up being removed due to a parents refusal/inability to recognise that what may be considered normal and acceptable in their culture is classed as child abuse here.

If you feel that your safeguarding concerns aren’t being taken seriously then you can call the MASH team directly.

Reporting to your safeguarding lead should be the first port of call but if you are being brushed off then report directly.

Safeguarding children is everyone’s responsibility.

This is a safeguarding issue (neglect) and any of the staff, including you, can contact MASH about it.

This isn't a go at anyone in particular but part of the reason ss are overrun with safeguarding cases is because somehow we've got ourselves into the mindset that ss are the (only) people who 'do' safeguarding. If anyone is worried about the safety of a child the 'thing' to do is refer to ss. I can see the logic in that but what do people think ss can do that they can't? If you think the parents need talking to because neglecting dental hygiene is neglect then the person who has the best relationship with the child outside the family should have that conversation. That might be the TA/teacher/head/school nurse depending on the situation. But all ss will do is tell the parents to do x to solve the problem. Yes coming from ss the request comes from a position of authority but teaching staff are authority figures too and are closer to the child to make sure the recommended action is taken.

My supposition is that when ss get involved parents might feel they are being spied/checked up on and lose their trust in authority figures and be less likely to change their behaviour.

A well worded suggestion from a trusted person close to the child is more likely to work IMHO.

As has been pointed out, this is indeed a safeguarding issue. this is a document that every member of school staff is required to read (you should sign a register to confirm you have done so) and it is very clear about the responsibility to report this. I would report it as it shows a lack of attention to medical need. In our school, we use an online reporting system, but I know others report differently. Whatever system your school uses, you must report it.