To think employers should just say don't bother

[feelinguseless2019]

I've NC and posting here for traffic I've had two interviews recently both have gone to internal candidates both have never done the job before...was told I gave excellent interviews and clearly knew my stuff...I've lost money for taking time off to go to the interviews...why can't employers be honest and say we have somebody already lined up for the job don't bother!

I have cried my eyes out as I'm genuinely fed up I've not had a permanent job in 5 years...constantly worrying about pay and when i have to take toke off etc how am I going to make the time up...just feeling useless, worthless and stupid thinking that I might have actually got the job. This is the 5th interview this year all gone internal.

Not very helpful I know but myDSis had a job interview arranged for last week . The day before the interview the firm rang to say that a previous employee of the company had contacted them to see if there were any vacancies, so they had taken her own as she was already familiar with the role. I would have been furious. I really sympathise with you.

There was never any intention of giving it to an outside candidate but legally they have to advertise it outside.

DH works in a sector where this is rife - he once had an experience where the internal candidate was whisked off to lunch with the interviewers and the rest were left waiting round it was clear they stood no chance.

He also knows few cases where that’s backfired as internal candidate moved on meaning in one case they had to go through whole process again.

He did spend some time employed in a niche private sector area and when an unexpected redundancy happened found a lot of the private companies were interviewing didn't have jobs but wanted to know about his pervious company.

Mind you I know many friends who’d tried for internal advancement often having done the actual job for an extended period of time only to not get the job as they prefer an external who sometimes doesn’t work out or hasn't the experince and need a lot of support from them – many leave the employer in the end as it’s the only way to get on.

It’s happened to me too. I nailed a recruitment process but got turned down, I asked for feedback and was told I was absolutely spot on, extremely high calibre, best they’d seen and by far and away the better candidate. However on reflection, they didn’t want the disruption of change so had decided to stick with the internal candidate who was covering the role on an interim basis. And two weeks later they called and asked for a soft copy of my presentation so the appointed candidate could use it (I refused!)

I do take some grim comfort from the fact that the decision maker was asked to step down by the shareholders a year later. Weak leadership and poor strategic delivery apparently!

There was never any intention of giving it to an outside candidate but legally they have to advertise it outside.

It's very rare that they are required by law to do it, but unfortunately, like a lot of employment law matters, some firms/HR staff don't have the ability to understand what the law actually says and work on half-truths and myths instead.

People are often headhunted for jobs. If an organisation knows someone, is familiar with their suitability for the job, of course they will approach them.

Advertising is just for form’s sake. Sometimes though, external candidates do impress and might be thought of for a future post, or even have something created for hem.

And two weeks later they called and asked for a soft copy of my presentation so the appointed candidate could use it (I refused!)

What a fucking cheek! You wouldn’t think they’d have the nerve would you? 😱

I do a lot of recruitment and I can honestly say I go into every panel with an open mind. I just want the best candidate for the job. There may be times when I expect an internal candidate to do well because they have the advantage of knowing the work and the environment, terminology etc but they are then outperformed by someone external with better skills (we do Excel tests, in tray exercises and presentations where appropriate as part of our interview process so aren't relying solely on someone talking the talk). That can be a difficult conversation to have afterwards with the internal person!

If we've run an external recruitment and appointed someone, then someone in a similar role resigns shortly afterwards, we will often contact the second candidate if they were also appointable to offer them the job without a further interview so it's always worth turning up.

This is really poor practice... if you think the job can be filled internally, no need to advertise externally at all.

Of course sometimes the employer is not sure and wants to benchmark the internal candidate against others on the market. But totally agree its not fair to put people through the stress of an interview / assessment if they've got no chance.

It's outrageous and it's part of the reason I left the public/third sector where it's absolutely rife. Measures that are supposed to stop discrimination just end up wasting everyone's time and money and not solving the problem at all. Far rather work somewhere that has the freedom to promote / move around good people as they see fit.

And I say this as someone who was once the beneficiary of a job that was advertised even though there was no intention of giving it to anyone but me. Fortunately noone else even applied for it, I don't think.

I do so agree. I have never understood this idea that employers "have" to advertise all vacancies. It must be so much simpler if there are people who work within the organisation available for the job. They may not have specifically the skills need [but can be trained] and will be familiar with the business ethos.

It seems a total waste of time [employer and potential employee] and cost to the employee. The government says there are plenty of vacancies but DD has degree and tries for many vacancies and hears nothing. Went for a civilian job with police [15 posts] and "was guaranteed interview" but never happened!

I had this experience several times when I worked in Local Government, even on the occasion I arrived to be interviewed and was told there were now two vacancies they both went to the internal applicants.
Eventually a small promotion opportunity came up where I was already working, so I applied for that and was offered an interview. My manger asked me to meet with him a couple of days before hand and went through the list of questions with me, briefed me on some subjects which would come up for discussion in more general terms and surprise surprise I got the job.

I echo everything @TheTitOfTheIceberg says.

OP I fully understand your disappointment and your take on it is understandable.

While I don't know, of course, what happened in your specific situation, it isn't as common as everyone seems to think that 'oh it goes to the internal candidate, it's all a stitch-up'. I have been on both sides of this, so I know how it feels. Yes, I have interviewed for roles where on-the-ground information suggested there was an internal candidate who was likely to get the job, and did. I found it disappointing but honestly, I understood it. In my experience, organisations do not 'just appoint' internal candidates, they put them through the interview process, and this is important - to test the candidate, to see how they perform and to evaluate them against other applicants.
In a different scenario, I was an internal candidate for my current role, and had very much proved myself in my work; I was seen as a very strong candidate and people candidly said 'oh of course you'll get it'. But I didn't take that at face value, I know that the interview panel would genuinely give it to the person who performed well on the day. In the event, I did get it - but when I asked for feedback (afterwards I wished I hadn't asked!) I was told that I very nearly didn't - I did a good interview and ultimately shaded it because of my team management experience. The next in line, an external candidate, was apparently excellent on a particular aspect of the role. But this is how it should be.

I've recruited a lot and genuinely, on interview boards, we are looking for the best candidate - and the rules are that it has to be the best candidate on the day. It's no good if they fluff it, and we know them and think 'oh but sure they are usually great at the job'. They must perform on the day. In our area of work, that means giving a good presentation, being very well-prepared and articulate. I hear a lot of people going on and on about perceived unfairness. I think you are better off getting good feedback that you can work on, and leaving that kind of approach aside.

YANBU! I'm sorry this has happened. I've never had a permanent job so I'm not the best person to talk to, but it sounds like a really stressful situation. Especially when there's no constructive feedback, you've literally got nothing out of the interview.

I'm not sure what job/sector you're in, but are you on LinkedIn? I've been approached on their a few times and I don't really use it much for networking or promoting myself so I bet if I did there's a possibility I'd get more interview offers. I even got approached when I put that I wasn't looking for work... though tbf it was also for a job I wasn't suitable for so I just think the recruiter messaged anyone who vaguely sounded suitable! Plus there's been a few times on LinkedIn (or Twitter) when someone really wants a job, their post got shared, and they got one (though I don't know how reliable that method is!)

I'm sorry if any of this comes across as patronising or unhelpful, I'm not a careers expert, I'm just finishing uni, but you sound so stressed and it's terrible to worry about money so I just wanted to show some support.

If it helps, you sound brilliant at your job, and I bet your interview technique is perfect so you shouldn't feel stupid. It's just such a shame you have to worry about financial security.

I hope you get lucky soon, and appologies again if I've said anything stupid.

*there - omg my brain is mushy

But you run the risk of the job going to someone else every time!

Yes but for many jobs you at least have a chance, for some jobs there is no chance as the internal candidate will get it however well you do at interview.

Sorry OP, this has happened to me and it really sucks. What was particularly bad in my case was that the interview had gone SO well, I really thought I would be successful.

They did offer me another job, but not the one I applied for. They explained that the job was going to the person who had been doing it for a year already!

I wasted time, annual leave and the sheer stress of psyching myself up for a completely pointless interview.

Hi All thanks for the replies...been at work finally got home...pretty much shut myself away today. Found out that a lot of 'coaching' from one of the interviewers and another person who is a relation and high up of the person I was up against has been going on...just feeling deflated...I can't believe the cheek of what's happened to people.

@poisonivybee not at all patronising...funny enough I saw an advert for LinkedIn this morning so will set that up tomorrow! Thanks for your reply

"There was never any intention of giving it to an outside candidate but legally they have to advertise it outside.

This isn't true. "

It's true in the public sector I'm afraid. I know t's horrible and I really sympathise, but spare a thought for the internal candidate who has to go through this charade as well. Even if they've been told they'll definitely get the job, interviewing for your own job is still incredibly embarrassing and awkward as well as the guilt you see when the hopeful external candidates arrive.

@Gwenhwyfar this person didn't have to interview for their job...this person has never done the job before I have, this person was coached by a person on the interview panel and another senior person who is also a close family relation...if they had just said to me we already have this person lined up your welcome for the interview experience that would have been fine but to waste just under £200 in two days which I'm now worrying about how on earth I'm going to make that up for the end of this month...I just feel so angry...I'm fed up of this crap...I can't even say anything as I need my reference for when I leave.

Do they have a temp register? I got my public sector job by starting as a temp, then I became one of those internal people that got a permanent position. It was the only way I could get my foot in the door.

@EarringsandLipstick fair enough my feedback was very detailed and the interviewer said there's nothing I can say as you both were at the top "I know it's not helpful but you were both excellent" when all along the other person was coached, shown the interview questions , was so blasé in the candidate room which I found slightly unnerving and when I was told by various sources this is how that person gets in the positions they are in which makes A LOT of sense as when I first met this person I did think how? I'm quite frankly pissed off that someone who has no proven experience (which the job specifically asked for) has got it...I've put my heart and soul into this job...as usual I've been naive and believed this will be a fair process but no wrong again.

I will be doing what a previous poster has done and asking if there are any internal candidates going for the job and declining as I can't afford to keep losing money.

I am so sorry op it really sucks and I don't know what the answer is. The only thing I would say is there is some hope. I have seen both sides, internal candidates clearly lined up for the job and as happened to a pp, doing job for a year got bypassed by external candidate. So you can get through but yes very unfair

Nothing wrong with recruiting internally - employers that prioritise an interview performance over demonstrable evidence of ability to do the job are a key reason why productivity is through the floor - but recruiters that waste interviewees' time and money just so that they can tick a fake transparency/fairness/diversity box deserve their own circle in hell

@Whatsforu I really hope so...I just felt like finally I fit and it meets my expectations...I'm really angry at the moment so I'm sorry to any posters I'm coming across to as rude...

Just fed up of putting everything I had into a job particularly this one and losing out every time especially to nepotism I'll get over it and spend ridiculous amounts of time filling out applications and see what happens. Again thanks all I knew obviously it doesn't just happen to me, hearing some of these stories I honestly can't believe the cheek of employers but then again after the last few I can!