To think school production role allocation is unfair?

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Dd school production this week, and during the interval i overheard the teacher talk to the lead role's mum, telling her that her son was chosen to be the lead before they even did auditions, based on his personality. Meaning the children that were auditioning for the lead were just wasting their time, as they had already chose the lead. The child wasn't even going to audition for that role, until the teacher asked his mum to encourage him to. I don't think it's very fair, they should either allocate roles based on auditions or to scrap auditions and allocate just on the child's personality, which is practically what they are doing anyway.

Aibu to think it isn't really fair?

I agree ivana.
Singing is the one thing you can lie through your teeth at and say they're beautiful at singing at regardless of whether they are or not, as everyone's voice sounds lovely in their own head doesn't it? Mine does, and I assume it's not particularly.
Other things, maths and football etc, they know whether they're good or not.

I do wonder how Tech is seen as a non job.

You'd notice pretty fucking quickly if there weren't any lights and the PA wasn't working when the kids step up to the mic.

Almost any kid can shuffle up to a microphone and make a sound pleasing or not. There are few who have the intelligence to maintain attention for an entire show and follow a lighting script, trigger cues at the right time, run cables, know how to compensate for a mumbler and a shrieker on the same stage and generally make a task that is nigh on impossible for one member of staff feasible.

I had a tech runner who ensured that there were no radio mic 'She's fucking shit' incidents, a lighting board tech, a spot operator, a sound desk tech, five stagehands (one who ended up as a 6 foot 4 tall parrot when the five foot three Parrot #1 decided on the day that he didn't want his friends laughing at him - in the same costume, so he looked more like an interspecies marriage between a cockatoo and a giraffe), a backstage manager, camera operator and three roadies.

Most of them have ability in music, art or drama - it's that which gives them the capability to understand what is needed for a performance.

Non-jobs, indeed.

Would you expect a sports team to be chosen along the lines of 'fairness' or along the lines of who is best at that sport? You can't be good at everything and if parents don't teach their children this then they are setting them up for a lot of disappointment in life. If I were being operated on I would want the best person for the job, not someone whose turn it happens to be!

@TwoPupsandaHamster excuse me, how dare you suggest my son sounds like a strangled pigeon, what a uncalled for, nasty thing to say about a child.
He can't do rugby and football as he has serious lung conditions.
And no, there aren't kids who go to Stagecoach or similar, trust me, the school is in an incredibly deprived area.
And for the record, he does have a talent, he has always sung round the house, he has an ability to hear a song once and know the lyrics.
It is always the same kids for everything-sport, class Captain, you name it it's the same kids.
And the fact his teacher went over the top bigging him and his audition up was cruel.

I think you're over-reacting there a bit, BuBuBirdie.
TwoPups was speaking generally, not about your son specifically.
Singing around the house and remembering lyrics is no proof of having talent, I'm afraid, although he may well have one. The thing is, it's not how good he is, it's how much better anyone else who auditioned it.

I never suggested your son sings like a strangled pigeon lol! It was generic. All children have a talent. Some are more talented at certain things than others. Just because you think your d's can sing doesn't mean someone else can't sing better.

My ds could kick a football. He wouldn't have been chosen to play for the school football team though. It doesn't mean he can't kick a football. We all realise there are others who can kick a football better than him, or can run faster than him. He didn't get a lead part in the school play either. But the parts he got he did well and to his ability.

In fact out of all my children (own, fostered and adopted) - and there are many - only one had a lead part in any production. She attended a local am dram group (£2 subs) from age 5 to 15, where she gained confidence, over 10 years in performing to audiences. So not all children who get leads in school productions attend Stagecoach or pricy theatre groups. But those who attend clubs out of school have more chance. Whether it be football practice, rugby, netball, maths club, dance or stagecraft.

Poor teachers are never going to win as far as school productions go. It seems most parents whinge if their dc don't get the lead role. There is always more than one speaking/singing role in any production. Not everyone in the class can be the star!

@DorisDaisyMay I did We Will Rock You in 6th form, I was one of the leads too haha. I won't tell you which one because it would definitely be outing.

"It is always the same kids for everything-sport, class Captain, you name it it's the same kids."

Well it would be very unfair and most odd to hold auditions and not choose the best wouldn't it?

Or to hold football trials and not choose the best players.

Or to have a vote for class captain and not choose the child with the most votes.

I think your over-sensitivity to the 'strangled pigeon' comment speaks volumes actually, as does thinking your ds's teacher is 'cruel' for praising his audition.

You say he lacks confidence, so im sure she was just trying to make him feel good about himself. Teachers are not generally trying to be cruel to kids and, if they are, a compliment is a weird way to go about it.

Can't your ds be the best at poetry, or painting, or completing his Reading Record, or doing kind things for his classmates, or baking, or doing tech for a concert? It's your job to help him see that sport and drama are not the only ways to shine.

I think it's shit that only the loud, confident kids get picked. How are others supposed to develop confidence if they never get a chance?

Who cares if they do an amazing job or not? It's a school play. It's for them, not the audience.

I'm all for giving the shy, quieter ones a chance so they can learn some skills.

I hate this labelling and boxing in of kids we do from day one. Let the confident ones take the small or backstage roles sometimes so they learn how to let others shine too. Everyone learns.

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis thank you!
Someone with half a brain finally.
That was exactly my point. Boost kids up, all kids, it's a school play not the West End.
And @hellodarkness "it speaks volumes"? What that I give a shit for my son? How very un-mumsnet of me.

Who cares if they do an amazing job or not? It's a school play. It's for them, not the audience.
Because it's not unreasonable to pick the best kids for the parts.
This idea of celebrating mediocrity to the same level as talent is silly. I'm rubbish at drawing, always was as a child. I wouldn't have expected to win the school Christmas card competition and have my drawing selected because 'Lola needs a moment to shine so we'll pick her even though she's not very good'. There were other things I was good at.

Boost kids up, all kids, it's a school play not the West End.
And yet in the OP, the teacher went out their way to encourage a child who wouldn't normally do drama to audition because they saw some potential the child didnt see and people are still having a go at the teacher for it.

Some people won't be happy unless every public based representation is arranged ignoring any talent the students have, being on the school team is on rotation basis regardless of fitness, main roles are shared regardless of talent, representing the school goes to everyone even those who are silly, public speaking goes to someone who mumbled every word.

That attitude is precisely why secondary teachers get calls because their child loved drama in primary school and had a main role, but they're in the chorus in y7 and that's damaged their confidence, why can't my child have a bigger part as they feel upset they didn't get the lead (lead went to y9/10 student who can actually project and act). The bottom line is they've gone into an environment with 200-250 students a year and we aren't going to coordinate subject by subject to make sure everyone gets what they want regardless of talent.

It's possible to boost everyone up by helping them find what they are good at, or supporting them to get better so that next time they are stronger.

"Lola needs a moment to shine so we'll pick her even though she's not very good'"

That is so far from what I'm saying.

I'm saying it doesn't need to be the same four or five outgoing kids that get chosen every time and that sometimes children have talents that aren't obvious because schools tend to put children into boxes.

Please don't misrepresent what I'm saying with your ludicrous examples.

Actually, as lines need to be learnt / practised at home we don't choose children who we know have lazy parents and won't bother to help their DC learn their lines

How come at the end of the rehearsals ALL the kids know ALL the lines? It’s quite obvious that those sat at the back are miming the words!!!

And ‘Don’t show up for rehearsals?’ They don’t have a choice in junior school.

Yes it's annoying when it's the same kids each year getting the big parts, and really only half the class actually gets a part. Some of the kids get to sit there and watch only to get to be on stage as a tree for two minutes. I book our holiday that week to avoid the torture.

With all due respect you are getting over involved. It’s a school play.

IAmAlwaysLikeThis
Then maybe if they want to be involved in different clubs or plays etc then they need to do sport or music or drama or whatever a bit more so that when they audition they are going to stand out and have a good go at it.

For example, when the teacher gets students to read aloud in class, do all children read aloud confidently with expression, do they give their answers in class at an audible volume or do they mumble (and then home get upset their child doesnt have a large speaking part)? When they do group presentations, do some of the children who didn't get lead parts barely do anything? When they've done dance or gym and they've shown their work, do all these overlooked children show their work or shuffle awkwardly? Do all these children whose parents think they should have the lead or be on the team play sport after school, or join the choir, or get involved in Christmas carol concerts etc? Or is it just that when the play comes around it's easy to have not got involved all year and then complain when other people get the part?

There are so many opportunities to develop the whole child in schools, in class and in extra curricular. I think with primary school plays some parents need to chill out a bit because nobody is going to care about it by secondary and there's going to be multiple performances a year they can be involved in (as long as they're willing to accept they will probably start with smaller parts and chorus to start with).

Sometimes it works out. At my ds school the boy in his class that always has to win always has to have a lead The one whose mum goes in and complains of he doesn’t didn’t get a look in for the year six leavers play. I was very happy.

Sometimes it works out. At my ds school the boy in his class that always has to win always has to have a lead The one whose mum goes in and complains of he doesn’t didn’t get a look in for the year six leavers play. I was very happy.

Someone with half a brain finally.

Nice. Disagreeing with you doesn’t make people thick.

If this is secondary school then YABU.

In the “real” world, a play is chosen, auditions are held, the play is cast. In school play world, the play is chosen based on whether or not the teacher can cast it. No point doing Hairspray in a school with no diversity, no point doing West Side Story if you have no one who can hit a top C. And so on. Therefore of course teachers have an idea who who might play what. Not to say that doesn’t sometimes change in auditions. It doesn’t mean auditions are pointless. Also in the “real” world, an actor not showing up or not having the right kind of attitude or failing to listen to the director would get the sack. Not possible (except in extreme circumstances) in a school play so inevitably the teachers’ holistic knowledge of the child comes into it.

And for those of you saying “it’s just a school play, not the west end” consider how much it actually means to the kids involved. They want it to be as good as possible. And if people are paying to watch it then they deserve a top quality show. The time and effort it takes, on top of the normal job, is immense.

It depends on what you class as the lead roll.

Over the years the part of Mary has always been thought of as the lead roll, for me the narrator is actually the lead roll. Mary just needs to sit still and quietly hold a baby, the narrator has to learn lots of lines and tell the story.

Mine have had various parts over years, from a non moving or speaking part (tree), singing, acting parts and tech support.

Without the tech support, there is no play.

This always causes drama, typically you do know who will be good in a role because when you work in a classroom you know the children very well, auditions are just a chance to see them in action.

The teacher was silly to say that to a parent though.

It's also true in RL, how many times have you heard or read, about the director of a film, already having a certain person in mind for the part. They still have to audition and sometimes, someone else will do a better audition and actually get that part instead as they make a better fit.

It's not fair and is really upsetting for the children, I remember when I was 7 I was picked for the role of Goldilocks when the teacher simply asked all the blonde girls to put their hands up if they were interested and just looked around and chose me, probably because I was quite confident and happened to be blonde!.

My best friend who was brunette was devastated and burst into tears and I will never forget that moment, it was terribly unfair.

At secondary you had to audition but it was all the same ones who get picked

YANBU but I don’t think it’s ever really fair when ‘main parts’ are involved. In my primary school the same three children were chosen to be the main parts every year, I was one of the three. We all went to drama school so had an unfair advantage.