Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Panic over whether to go ahead with flat purchase - 2 beds but without building regs for loft!

33 replies

custarddonut · 03/07/2019 11:58

Hi there, posting here for traffic.

DH and I found what we thought was the perfect flat nearly 6 months ago now. Always intended to complete by August as that's when our current tenancy expires (we're first time buyers). This also suited the vendor. Flat was marketed as a 2 bedroom, with one 'normal' bedroom and another bedroom in the converted loft. This room has stairs leading up to it but no actual door to it if that makes sense, but we loved the flat so much we decided to go ahead anyway. THe flat is a fantastic size and a good price for a 2 bedroom flat in the area. Anyway fast forward 6 months and our surveyor has come back and said that the loft conversion bedroom doesn't have building regulations. Our lawyer asked the vendor's lawyer to get retrospective building regulations done. HOwever, we've now heard that this won't be possible as there is apparently no way that the loft conversion would comply with current building regs (stairs too steep, no door etc.). However it doesn't seem structurally unsound and it's still to all intents and purposes, a bedroom. We are now waiting to hear from our mortgage provider and are worried that they will take the view that this is actually a 1 bedroom flat with a loft space, and subsequently not give us our full mortgage (the price should reflect this 'new' news type thing). All this though has given us cold feet, much as we love the flat, it won't be our forever home and I worry that we'll face the same problem when we come to sell. I don't think that an indemnity insurance policy will be enough? Does anyone have any expertise here? Feeling so torn as we love the flat, we've already given notice on our tenancy but nervous to buy a 'two bed' flat if really it's just a one bed. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated!!

OP posts:
adaline · 03/07/2019 11:59

I wouldn't go ahead - too much risk if something was to go wrong imo.

qinsi · 03/07/2019 12:05

I have a house like this - it isn't considered a bedroom. You can use it as a bedroom certainly but the estate agent shouldn't have described it as one because the building regs have been in place for ages.

So basically, yes, it's a one bedroom flat which is why it's cheap. Sorry.

Outedsochanged · 03/07/2019 12:06

Walk away, building regs are there for a reason. It is a one bedroom flat, with a boarded out storage space above. Nothing more. It won't comply with fire regulations. Building regs are not just about structurally soundness. If you put some one sleeping up there you are putting them at risk. By the way chances are it is just a boarded out room, do you know for sure that it had structural steel beams out in which is the usual for loft conversions?
Alternatively reoffer a suitable price for it being a one bedroom or get a quote for bringing it up to standard.

Witchesandwizards · 03/07/2019 12:12

The mortgage may be ok if it is priced as a one bed, but personally I wouldn't do it - you'll have the same problem when you come to sell.

Or as PP said, reduce your offer significantly to allow for this discovery. The vendor will encounter the same problem with another buyer so may be forced to accept....

Original poster
custarddonut · 03/07/2019 12:23

Thanks for the responses. I think I have to admit to myself that I have exactly these reservations. I will probably try offering the money for the price of a 1-bed. So frustrating! You would think that estate agents should know this stuff and not advertise it as a 2 bed in the first place... so frustrating to only have picked up on this now but it is a learning curve I guess. Thanks again

OP posts:
SnowsInWater · 03/07/2019 12:25

We sold a two bed house "with boarded out loft". It was a beautiful room with escape skylight windows that met code (our eldest slept there so there was no way it was not going to be safe) but we would have had to close in the hallway in a period house to make it compliant. Our EA advised us correctly and the price reflected it's status. What I don't like about your situation is the fact that it looks like the vendors were not being honest. That would put me off.

qinsi · 03/07/2019 12:27

Yes the vendors and the estate agents know that it is not a 2 bed. I would pull out because they've lied to you.

ZazieTheCat · 03/07/2019 12:29

Don’t touch it with a barge pole.

MyCatHatesEverybody · 03/07/2019 12:31

My old house had a loft conversion that didn't comply with building regs for what sounds like similar reasons (no fire door, stairs too narrow). In reality it's fine as long as that space isn't marketed or priced as an extra bedroom (provided your surveyor is happy with its safety of course) - just bear that in mind when you come to sell it yourself.

Ericaceae · 03/07/2019 12:37

We've got an Edwardian house that was marketed as a 3 bed, which it is, but it's got a huge attic space upstairs. The staircase is original to the house and it has a door to the hall, and velux windows. We wouldn't use it as a bedroom, but it's a great games room and music room for the kids. We paid more than we would gave for a similar three bed without it, but far less than we would a "proper" 4 bed.
If you view it as extra space which you're prepared to pay a bit more for then that's one thing, and that's how our mortgage company/the single home report (we're in Scotland) viewed it. If you're looking for a proper 2 bed and that's what your mortgage company thinks, you'll need to have a hard think.

Ericaceae · 03/07/2019 12:40

In terms of selling again, you'd just need to be honest and market it as a one-bed with a bonus room and price accordingly. Someone will go for it if you're open about that and the price reflects it - we did. Our vendors slightly cheekily had a double bed in there to show off the space, but didn't attempt to sell it as a bedroom if that makes sense.

Original poster
custarddonut · 03/07/2019 12:41

Gosh, thanks everyone. I know this sounds daft but it didn't even occur to me that the estate agents and vendors were being wilfully dishonest here. They (the vendors) seem so nice! I feel very naive. At the very least you'd think the estate agent would know. Bloody estate agents! But majority seem to suggest it's not worth it, I think I agree. So sad as it's a beautiful flat. But maybe prices will drop further anyway (it's in London) so not all bad perhaps.

OP posts:
IncandescentShadow · 03/07/2019 12:43

It shouldn't have been advertised as a two bedroom because it isn't, and its value will be as a one bedroom, with extra amenity space. I would research the selling prices of one bedroom flats in the area, add on maybe 5 -10% and work out if its over-priced.

Indemnity insurance is however a perfectly acceptable solution but it does affect the value, particularly if its so non-compliant that no letter of comfort is possible.

I do think building regulations are somewhat over-strict in this country in some areas. In The Netherlands, people quite happily cope with narrow staircases day in day out and it enables much better use of land with 3 or 4 storey narrow houses as a result. If I did a loft conversion in my house, to add two extra bedrooms upstairs I would need to sacrifice one downstairs to accommodate a staircase of the requisite dimensions, although there is actually more than adequate room in the hall for a not particularly steep staircases. The house I converted before had similar issues and I had to pay for a bespoke staircase with a twist in it at a crucial point to comply - it cost £12,000.

Ericaceae · 03/07/2019 12:53

You're right, OP, the EAs should know, and will know, and they're at it. The vendors may just be going along with what they've advised. At least you know who to keep an eye out for when you're looking in that area - good luck!

LightsInOtherPeoplesHouses · 03/07/2019 13:24

How much did the surveyor value the flat at? More than you're paying? If you really like the flat and would be happy to use the attic room for some other purpose then make a new offer.

We bought a house with some issue over building regs for some work done, the sellers paid for insurance and it caused no problems when we sold it a few years later, we just passed the documentation on.

DonkeyHohtay · 03/07/2019 13:30

WALK AWAY.

Either it costs you a fortune to do the remedial work to bring it up to standard ( and it's not just stairs there's lots more to it than that) or you are lumbered with a flat you can't sell.

It's not a 2 bed flat. It's a 1 bed flat with storage space in the loft.

qinsi · 03/07/2019 16:44

It isn't quite that cut and dried Donkey because some houses like mine just don't have enough space to fit a full size staircase without carving out a huge chunk of an existing bedroom. My attic room has velum windows, insulation, heating, carpeting, mains electricity and tv aerial point.

It's not a proper bedroom legally but it's a lot more than storage space! We use ours as a den/gaming room for teens and additional guest room

qinsi · 03/07/2019 16:44

Velux, not velum GrinGrin

BlueSkiesLies · 03/07/2019 16:46

Reduce your offer price to that of a one bed + lost space and proceed if you like the flat.

bellabasset · 03/07/2019 17:57

As there is no door the estate agent should have been aware it wasn't a 2 bedroom flat. If you like the flat then offer a reduced price. What I would also do for the sake of safety is to find out whether this space was professionally converted or a DIY job.

RollaCola84 · 03/07/2019 19:16

I'm in the same position as @SnowsInWater and @Ericaceae, I have a 3 bed Edwardian terrace with a fully converted loft (I bought it, didn't do it). I understand the previous owner's had it as a bedroom for his daughter who was there EOW. I've seen all the certificates, surveys etc, the work was done properly. Its only not compliant because the staircase isn't boxed in, which would ruin a period property.

If the other room isn't compliant to be used as a bedroom then it shouldn't be priced or marketed as such as agents should know that. That would make me more concerned than the actual work.

TurquoiseDress · 03/07/2019 19:21

It's a tough situation but personally I'm not sure I'd want to go ahead if I were in your shoes

You'll likely come into the same problems when you come to sell it

We are looking to buy at the moment and saw 3 bed maisonette but when we did a viewing it was clear that it was a 2 bed with boarded out loft space and not a genuine 3rd bedroom

Bluntness100 · 03/07/2019 19:24

Op, why don't you wait to see what the mortgage company value it at, then try to negotiate with the seller to buy it for that price.

OhWotIsItThisTime · 04/07/2019 05:12

I’d pull out. You don’t know if it’s structurally sound and the way they’ve marketed the property is misleading. If they’re prepared to do that, you can’t trust them as you don’t know what else they’re not being truthful about.

MinnieMountain · 04/07/2019 07:03

If it's a flat, are you allowed to use the loft space? I presume your solicitor has checked the description of the flat in the lease by now but just a thought.