To think DD shouldn't have to declare her epilepsy on job application

[PoppingGlitter]

Sorry this is a more WWYD.

DD (20) is applying for an internship at a Government department (not in the UK) she has been asked this "Do you currently have, or have you ever had, a medical condition caused by gradual process, injury, illness or disability that could reasonably be expected to affect your ability to carry out the work of the position applied for; or which could reasonably be expected to be aggravated or contributed to by the work of the position applied for?"

She has to undergo a medical examination if she gets the job.

DD is concerned that if she doesn't state she is an epileptic and it is discovered during the medical examination she will be declined. But then she doesn't want to be discriminated against either.

But if she has been seizure free for nearly a year surely she shouldn't have to mention it?!

Aargh...

She could be in danger if she fell off her chair though 🤨. What if she hit her head on something that was around her? ...

With the current level of control she has, can she carry out the job spec?

If she can, then she need not declare it at this point. Because this question is to see if adjustments may need to be made (and check they are not directly incompatible - so a job with occasional driving might be adjusted, a job as a driver might not work)

Civil Service are pretty good at keeping to the rules - and for this question they are asking about any limitations (and what these are), not for your medical history.

(Very out of date now, but have worked in this area)

I haven't had a seizure for 23 years and I would still declare it. I have got every job I've gone for.

Any seizure less than a year ago should be declared because your condition is not considered as stable until you are at least 1 year seizure free.

YABU, I worked with a girl years back who didn’t declare, same situation.

She had a fit at 7am one morning when only she and 2 others of us were in the office, she fitted so violently she hit her face a number of times on the desk, lost 3 teeth and had 2 black eyes. Neither of us knew what the hell to do, luckily my colleague had attended a course at some point so knew not to touch and to let the fit pass. It was terrifying.

When she was healed and her face fixed (thousands for her teeth), she apologised to us for the shock we felt and made arrangements not to be in the office alone any longer and always have some one nearby.

The CS will not discriminate, recruitment is blind and that wouldn’t be a factor of for an office based role only.

I am a first aider and would much prefer that someone in the office told me (in confidence if they prefer) so I know and can deal with it should situation arise.
I also hire people and would not be fazed by someone with this condition (maybe because I have been trained to deal with it). I would not turn down application If someone had this condition, it would be on job based merits and ability to fit in the team.

Often having a disability automatically gets you an interview (as the Government is seen to want to hire people with disabilities) so it actually might go in her favour

Maybe the Government is different but I’ve worked for small businesses and been involved in interviews/recruitment and the employers wouldn’t have hired someone with epilepsy as they just wouldn’t of wanted there being a small chance of it effecting the business, they’d have been worried about potential absences etc.

I know it’s not right but employees can be selfish like that so if it was me I’d do everything in my power to not tell them.

@ MadameBijou

I get that what happened is shit but this girl probably had the foresight to know that an employer could be scared off if they knew about her condition.

As someone who worked in recruitment for years many employers DO discriminate. They just don’t want the hassle or something like what you described happening in their offices. Most employers aren’t charitable.

You need to be realistic about this. They aren’t allowed to discriminate but they still do! Just like employers aren’t allowed to discriminate on age, they do it all the time.

My mum has an epileptic condition. She used to work for 2 government departmens during her career. She was also liable for the protected interview scheme, which may be internal once your foot is in the door, in that if you meet the criteria and have a disability/ listed chronic health condition then you are guaranteed an interview.

It is important for colleagues and managers to know of health issues it is not an automatic exclusion. Honest.

I don't know anything about New Zealand but before I retired, 3 years ago, I did recruit for local government in England and I would have wanted her to declare. She wouldn't have been discriminated against.

If it helps at all during her career she met others, not heaps but my mum does not do talking to people! Also with epilepsy, so she got herself on an internal group tackling barriers in the workplace. Some of the policies in place now she worked on, it's not all doom, gloom and no.

I worked with a guy who didn’t tell anyone he had epilepsy. This was a University engineering dept. He had a major fit in one of the research laboratories. I was the first aider, we had no idea what was happening, okay there was a lot of danger as it was a lab and more so than at a desk but would have been helpful to know. He recovered well and bought me a box of chocolates as a thank you.

Will it go against her with some employers, very possibly and no amount of legislation will stop it because as long as they follow legislative box ticking whose to know. My ex colleagues DH never employed women who were young enough to get pg, very hard to prove. She casually mentioned it when she was pg.

Not trying to be awkward, but wouldn't you be better off finding a NZ-based website to ask this question? Bit of a long-shot asking UK-based posters.

I have epilepsy. I always declare it but state that it’s well controlled and I’m X amount of years seizure free.

She needs to declare it. I believe it is more about them having to make any special arrangements for her should she have a seizure.

I'd imagine it would be hugely scary to anyone to witness your daughter having a seizure that they were in no way aware could happen or prepare for.

I also imagine if she doesn't declare it and they find out they would disqualify her anyway for failing to disclose it.

I understand this will be sensitive for her but it's the best thing to do.

Decent employers ask these questions so they can put in place any assistance you may require, and (with your permission) inform colleagues how to help you or deal with any episodes.
DD is autistic, and declared it on her application to a major company. They arranged for her to have a private room to withdraw to if she had a meltdown at work, got her into their disability support network, and had a meeting with her and occupational health to discuss what other adaptations she might need, such as a quiet work environment. They also briefed her future colleagues with a presentation on autism and how to interact with her.
With epilepsy, it might be a good idea for colleagues to be briefed on how to manage seizures, and to check out the workplace for things like flickering or flashing neon lights that might induce fits.

Ok so I'm not in NZ so this doesn't apply but my employer is shit hot on disabilities being declared and putting things in place.

My brother has epilepsy, and because he was lone working (disability support worker) they moved him to a residential support home to work so he was never alone with service users and had support if he needed it.

They deemed the same for me as I'm autistic and have IBS so lone working would mean toilet access would be limited.

I do hope your DD wouldn't be discriminated against, but I think it's best if she does declare it to her manager at least so that if she ever did have a seizure it wouldn't be a surprise and there could be a protocol for how to support her properly, both as it happened and afterwards.

We had girl with epilepsy at work. Slightly more dangerous environment. Staff were briefed on a plan of action in event of seizure and we were all.given disability awareness teg

No experience of the NZ system, but for those saying that the UK CS don't discriminate, you might want to look at the number of successful disability discrimination claims against them. The DWP in particular has a terrible record, which is ironic given that they should be the ones most experienced at dealing with disabled people (or not, given how poorly they treat their disabled clients).

The UK system doesn't work usually. The only reason I think my workplace adhered to it properly is that we're a national disablity charity providing support, so kind of have to.

Wow falling off your chair having a seizure could be very dangerous op.

Of course employers need to know if a potential employee has epilepsy. My sons friend withheld this information when he did a customer facing shop role as he was also concerned he would not get the job. He had a seizure and his work colleagues had no idea what was happening and an ambulance was called. It was distressing for all concerned. Subsequently his manager had the staff trained up to recognise and deal with the seizures. Sadly, his friend at 21years old has died in his sleep very recently from having a seizure. Obviously whilst most people with epilepsy live very long lives with the epilepsy having very little affect on their daily lives, it can be life threatening so anyone they are in close contact with on a daily basis do need to be made aware.

A new starter at an old job had a seizure but hasn’t told anyone about her condition.

I would think it sensible to declare any condition where other people may have to intervene.

What type of seizures has she had? (Obviously don't feel you have to say). If they are focal her employers would need to know so they don't think she is just zoned out (no offence to those with these seizures!) but employers may be less likely to see it as a risk.

If they are tonic clonic I think her employers definitely need to know - as PP said the risk of injury is high and they need to know what to do, especially if she has a 5 min + seizure and she would need urgent medical assistance. It's for her safety.

Sadly however, I also think she would be discriminated against by a lot of employers, although or course I don't know about NZ attitudes (or legislation to protect her).

Does she have the medical assessment after she has been offered the job? Personally I would disclose after receiving an offer and not at interview stage.

Especially if she has been seizure free for a year, I would be taking the line I didn't declare at application stage as it shouldn't affect her ability etc (as the application wording) but she still wanted to make them aware at medical assessment so it can be noted.

It's a fine line between being honest and ensuring safety whilst not being discriminated against, isn't it. It is shit, I know, but this is the way I would do it if my seizures were controlled.

My friend has epilepsy and he has to declare it on job applications even in the UK because a lot of companies can't hire him due to their health and safety policies. He's an engineer and has had an absolute nightmare finding a job because of it. He isn't allowed to use lots of different types of equipment due to their health and safety rules. I think in the UK it will depend on the job type.

Your daughter needs to declare her epilepsy. Having worked abroad in different parts of Africa, Asia and Europe (currently in Asia now) I know that the rules are often totally different. You just can't expect things to work how they do in the UK. Most countries don't have the anti discrimination rules that we have in the UK, they just don't exist at all, or if they do they're often very different.

Where I work, for example, people can get turned away from employment due to conditions which mean that 1) they might require regular time off or 2) they might have accidents at work and 3) for any mental health condition. Some conditions will mean the applicant isn't legally allowed to work because they will automatically fail the medical check (at my company recently a man who had been hired was unable to work after all due to the medical picking up a heart condition which he didn't even know he had and which hadn't affected him at any point in his life. Another was failed for declaring they had bipolar).

Even if they pass the medical, the company can decide at any time that they want to terminate a contract based on a health issue and will face no consequences for their decision.

I'm saying this not to worry you but to let you know the reality of what is at least my experience. Of course it will depend on where she is going as to what the rules are, but I'd say your daughter will be better off being open about it. For one thing, she will be alone abroad and if you haven't told her company about her epilepsy and something does happen it could hinder their ability to help. Secondly, sometimes it might be necessary to take certain precautions. How can they take these precautions if they don't know? What if they ask your daughter to do something she shouldn't do with epilepsy - how would she explain to them why she can't do it without admitting that she'd deliberately lied to them and thus making her epilepsy seem a bigger issue than you say it is, and also making her look really bad in the process?

As well as this, if you are dishonest and it's picked up on the medical, she could fail anyway. Or if the company do find out, there's a chance that they COULD decide not to keep her. If they're going to discriminate against her based on her epilepsy then you can't really do anything to prevent it if it's abroad, and wouldn't you rather she hadn't got her hopes up and travelled abroad and started an experience just to be turned away and disappointed? I'd definitely speak to the company about it as early on as possible, not only for safety but also so as not to waste your daughter's time.