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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This is how they do it

112 replies

paffuto · 29/06/2019 06:23

I thought MN's might be interested to see how "they" are cutting disabled benefits. Son 24 has severe autism and lives in supported living. He has received DLA since the age of 4 or 5 and is in the support group for esa which means he is not required to work. Has just been changed to PIP and given 0 points, a drop of £320 a month. So now his family, his Carers and Social Workers are going to have to fight for him. Letters cancelling his direct debits will have to be written (he can't write) because there might not be enough money in his bank account to pay all his bills. The council will have to do a reassessment to reduce his contribution towards his supported accommodation. His GP needs to be called and will probably prescribe meds because son is now a wreck. Any future dwp assessments will now require home visits, there is 0 chance of ever getting him to another one. For one of the PIP evidences we used Social Care Report. And here is a few examples of they did it: Social Care - son has an inability to manage and plan bus journey's unaided. PIP decision - I decided you can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. Social Care - without care support in situ son would be at risk of self neglect. Will only wash every 2-3 days. PIP decision - you wash daily and dress in clean clothing. Social Care - reports on anxiety when going out. PIP decision - you report anxiety going out, however you do not take medication for anxiety. And the whole letter is like this. WTF????!!!!

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 29/06/2019 09:24

A colleague has a 50ish year old brother with severe learning disabilities. When she accompanied him to an assessment she was asked what treatment he was receiving for his 'illness' and if they expected to see a significant improvement in his condition the next 12 months. ConfusedAngry

Grumpymug · 29/06/2019 09:30

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your son, I keep reading stories like this and it's just horrific.
I don't understand how someone not trained in an area, or not as qualified as the professionals who are sending in evidence can refute that evidence and decide it's not true. As someone else mentioned, people with some conditions may not recognise or accept the illness they have, or understand that they are self neglecting. It's absolutely ridiculous that those giving the diagnosis of treatment over time, knowing the patient are having their professional opinion ignored.
I pay tax (not a lot but I do!) With the thought in mind that we're supporting those in our society that can't, and it's something I wholeheartedly like about our welfare system, and then stuff like this keeps happening.
I feel like I'm supporting the old boys club at Westminster and nothing else right now and that's so wrong.
I hope you win an appeal and get what's rightfully his.

CazY777 · 29/06/2019 09:52

PIP and ESA assessment are a disgrace and I'm convinced that they award low or no points to anyone they think they can get away with, in an attempt to get you to just give up and stop claiming. Tory policies have turned it into a battle for people to get the support they need.

You need to request Mandatory Reconsideration within a month of receiving their letter. Have you got a full copy of the assessors report? If not you can ask them to send you it. You need to go through it and pick apart where they have made mistakes and quote evidence from professional sources. I did this on behalf of my husband, I sent pages and pages of corrections, and it worked. He now won't go to any assessments unless they are recorded, as that makes it much harder for them to lie. I think it was quite telling that the letter they sent saying that they had changed their minds and he had been awarded PIP had the word 'not' crossed out as they obviously just send the rejection letter out as standard!

Sirzy · 29/06/2019 10:02

It’s scary. Ds is only 9 but I really fear for his future because everything is being cut left right and centre.

And yet you still get idiots who believe disability benefits are handed out like sweets.

The current system is broken and it’s scary.

MillicentMartha · 29/06/2019 10:07

Obviously appeal, and you should be successful, but that doesn’t help in the short term, does it? It’s just all wrong. Angry

BlankTimes · 29/06/2019 10:08

Appeal for MR and expect to be turned down again then appeal for Tribunal.

I think it's awful when they send the letters and say that if you appeal then someone else will look at the claim and could decide to remove any points already awarded. Just ignore that.

I had to go through the system to Tribunal, the assessor for my relative was a nurse, she was fine for the daily living section and understood and awarded enough points, (relative has other conditions besides ASD) but she didn't understand anything about autism and the inability to plan a journey, the comment was something like attended mainstream school with no support therefore got x GCSEs, therefore can plan and undertake a journey unaided, which was untrue. Even the amount of GCSE's that relative attained wasn't true, because the assessor never asked, just assumed.

Also, relative's Blue Badge was up for renewal during the appeal process so they had to attend the Council offices for a Blue Badge assessment by the council's physio. This is despite having had a Blue Badge for 9 years, because the renewal conditions now state
people must have enhanced mobility PIP. Ironically the Council's physio scored the relative's mobility as much less than the ATOS assessor and granted the Blue Badge, so that evidence also helped with the mobility part of the appeal at Tribunal.

Start making your case for appeal now, when you ask for MR, their letter will tell you to reply "within a month from the date of this letter" but the date on the letter will be about a fortnight old, so in reality you only get a couple of weeks to reply.

Always send information by Post Office Tracked, then when they tell you (like they told me) your submission was received after the cutoff date, you can (like I did) print out a screenshot of the PO information showing who signed for it at DWP what time they signed for it and what date. When you write to them with that information asking why they have said the submission was late when you have proof it was received well within their deadline, you don't receive a reply.

The whole system is designed to intimidate people, that's not how it should be, and when you consider that it's designed to intimidate disabled people, it makes it even more vile.

At Tribunal, our Judge was fantastic, apologised for us having to attend because all the panel members independently agreed that our evidence should have initiated a PIP enhanced rate of both components on initial application and he said that if the DWP had bothered to turn up to the Tribunal hearing, he would have made them apologise to my relative too. Awarded enhanced rate for both components with "it is inappropriate to fix a term"

You have to fight, you have to be aware of DWP's unpleasant tactics and you have to provide as much evidence as you can. The time it takes to get to appeal gives you opportunity to amass more evidence if you need it.

You CAN do it! Flowers

HairyDogsInUnusualPlaces · 29/06/2019 11:14

How awful. Nothing constructive to add, but I'm horrified on your behalf. I hope you find the strength to appeal and that you are successful.

insideoutsider · 29/06/2019 11:15

@paffuto 'care staff said he'd heard they were given bonuses for removing people from benefits. Can anyone who does this job let me know if that's true please?'

Not true.
I have been working on a project where we have been observing disability assessments across many benefits as well as other types of interviews. The assessors HAVE TO work according to specific criteria and award the required points. For example for ESA assessments, there are only specific criteria that are measured so, if someone e.g. had a terrible health condition but they could walk using an aid, they could use their hands, communicate etc, they may score zero points.

There are no points for being severely unwell. That is government policy.

The other thing to have in mind is that disability rights campaigners are fighting hard for people with disabilities to be able to go to work and keep their jobs. This means that the government (Amber Rudd) now thinks that ALL disabled people desperately want to work. Guess what will happen to assessments? They will get harder to 'pass' and more people would be found fit for work. Hoorah? Yes, according to Ms Rudd.

I shadowed DWP decision makers a few years ago. When the assessors 'fail' someone, they have to go through all available evidence to check if there is any possibility for the claimant to have passed the government criteria. If there is, they have to overturn the decision and award the benefit. There are no incentives for DWP to 'fail' people. None whatsoever.

MillicentMartha · 29/06/2019 11:20

So how do you explain the OP and the blatant disregard of the evidence, and the fact that so many appeals are won by claimants?

insideoutsider · 29/06/2019 11:28

Oh, I agree that you should definitely appeal. The appeal system doesn't follow the points system and they rely generally on common sense.

The reason they ask questions unrelated to the condition is because there is a series of questions that relate to the points awards and they have to ask it all. Also, because of this, they don't really need to use medical professionals. There are set questions 'can you walk 50m without help?' 'can you dress yourself in the morning?' That sort of thing. DWP staff's hands are basically tied so, yes, follow through from mandatory reconsideration (DWP) to appeal.

70% (last I checked) of disallow decisions are overturned on appeal.

MuffinMad · 29/06/2019 11:28

I know someone who had spent years on DLA and was assessed for PIP.

She was shocked when they awarded her 0 points. Like everyone says, the report didn't match the truth.

After a Mandatory Reconsideration (no tribunal) she was given full points on both components.

Don't give up!

CazY777 · 29/06/2019 11:35

Having been through the process with my DH, I firmly believe that DWP do use any means within their guidelines to reduce the amount being paid to disabled people, and you have to keep fighting until they have to award you what you are untitled to. PIP is meant to support disabled people with additional costs due to their disabilities, its not meant to be awarded only when people are unable to work. The government needs to support disabled people in the workplace if they want and are able to work.

paffuto · 29/06/2019 12:34

Thankyou so much everyone. Sad to see others have been / are going through the same but it does help to know it's not just us Flowers Just gutted, he's been through such a lot in his life. Didn't even start education until he was seven because mainstream couldn't manage his needs. He was put on "authorised absence" until special school at aged 7. Even so, he's left school being unable to write. The massive help he needed for social capabilities overrode the education.

OP posts:
clpsmum · 29/06/2019 13:44

Omfg this country is a disgrace. The most vulnerable members of our society being treated like this, disgusting.thinking of you and your son and sending hugs your way

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 29/06/2019 13:53

Jesus. I am so so sorry. Brew Cake

CitadelsofScience · 29/06/2019 13:57

Speak to Fightbck and get them to help. They have a really good record for getting these things overturned.

I'm dreading my son being switched from DLA to PIP.

ColdTattyWaitingForSummer · 29/06/2019 14:10

It is honestly so anxiety inducing. I’m currently on ESA in the support group, and in the process of being reassessed. I know that I still meet the criteria, and that my condition hasn’t improved since my last assessment (if anything it has slightly worsened). But I read stories like this, about people who in many ways are even less able than I am, and it utterly terrifies me. I hope OP that your son’s appeal is successful. Flowers and Cake for you both. x

TheInebriati · 29/06/2019 14:17

They reject approx 80% of claims and force people to appeal - this is not about saving money, it costs money to implement. Its an ideology.
PIP represents a massive shift in the ideology. DLA was to assist disabled people with the extra expenses we face. PIP is restricted to people who can score 8 or more points from a very limited list.

You can need a carer for some tasks and still not be eligible for PIP.

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2017/may/dwp-has-80-targets-refusing-benefit-reconsiderations

TheQueef · 29/06/2019 14:22

Not sure if it's still the case but a lady I know was an atos assessor and although she wasn't rewarded for failing people she was certainly 'December's because too many of her assessment lead to awards.
She's an ex GP and left ATOS because of this.

TheQueef · 29/06/2019 14:24

December's? Should say retrained.

NoBaggyPants · 29/06/2019 14:27

@insideoutsider Have you not considered that the DWP workers did things by the book whilst you were there, because they were being watched, and that's not the norm? You can't deny all the experiences of claimants who have complete lies told about them, and their evidence disregarded?

OldGrinch · 29/06/2019 14:40

The whole situation is completely horrendous and getting worse all the time. But I hate to say it, if the majority of people in England want to continue voting Tory as they have been doing, no one should really be surprised this is happening.

stayingaliveisawayoflife · 29/06/2019 14:40

My sister had 0 points given for her esa. She appealed and it was upheld so she took it to tribunal. I was shocked at how badly written it was with spelling and grammar mistakes everywhere and this was in the final copy sent out by a Doctor. There were also many factual errors which her doctor had addressed in their letters.

At tribunal she was awarded 15 points to be reviewed in 6 months as it may then be increased.

It is an awful system.

soupforbrains · 29/06/2019 14:42

I find your situation heartbreaking and the actions of the government appalling.

I have no insight, inside info or suggestions to help.

What can we do to help? I have signed petitions to the government about this and other issues with the universal credit shitstorm. But what can we actually do to help? I don't mean this rhetorically I mean it 100% genuinely.

IncrediblySadToo · 29/06/2019 15:06

I’m so sorry to hear if so many struggles...it’s a disgrace best wishes getting sorted!

The other thing that always gets me is the volume of paperwork and record keeping required it’s bad enough for those with spouses/parents who can keep on top of it for someone, but for those who have to do it for themselves it’s utterly unreasonable for many.

There will always be those that take the mickey (but I’ve no idea how they get away with it), but it’s simplyNOT justification for treating every claimant so badly

Please do tell us if there’s anything else that we can do to help 🌷 being outraged, as I am, doesn’t actually help anyone! I know.

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