To ask about breastfeeding advice in the mid 80s

[DennisMailerWasHere]

I'm sure most would agree that there's a lot of advice/opinion/etc about breastfeeding out there now.

But on the back of a conversation with my aunt, aibu to ask MN what it was like in the mid 80s in most English hospitals so I can confirm some of her (surprising) statement s?

Was there much support on maternity wards for bf or was formula pushed?
We're the benefits of colostrum in particular known/reinforced?
Would mum's on wards be given bottles easily by midwives?
Would mum's have been given much of a sway between bottle formula Vs bf?
Were pumps available??
Etc

My first was born in 1985. I was given bad advice whilst on the watd (three days, as standard). As said, ten minutes each side and try to get into a routine. Topping up with formula was advised. But the attitude of all the Staff was a "why was i bothering".

Luckily there was another breastfeeding Mum on the ward, who gave me the 'feed on demand' advice of today. She was only in a day, unfortunately.

The post discharge midwife checked my feeding position, but told me to limit the feeding times and i was left with an upset baby, until i decided to ignore what i was being told.

There had been no explanation of colostrum, fore and hind milk, or that ypur milk changed to suit your baby. Water was still advised.

The system in my area was an open baby clinic. The HVs were pro formula. They said formula was better because you knew how much the baby was getting.

Weaning was advised at four months "especially since i was breastfeeding".

I am a child of the 80s. According to my mum we were all scooped away and taken to the nursery. DM was in hospital for a minimum of 5 days. She was lucky with me to get out in 48 hours. FF was the norm. Me and my siblings were all weaned at 12 weeks.

My mum had 5 children between 1974 and 1988 all breastfed. Advice was 10 minutes per side each 3 - 4 hours. We were all fine and breast feeding was very normal / every day thing to do.

Well I can't answer for the 80s but in the 90s there was zero support in hospital or special care and once we were home after ten days I was encouraged to formular feed. Bottles were also given in hospital.

I gave birth in France in 2010 and the experience I had there sounds v similar to those describing their experience in the 80s in the U.K.

I had 4 children, late 70s up to mid 80s. Breast feeding was actively encouraged on the wards and I remember most women breastfeeding. I was supported and helped. I remember lots of nurses around, free nappies and being given Guinness to drink.

Visitors were only allowed between 2-8 pm, including fathers, and you HAD to stay in for 7 days after giving birth.

And the bqbies were taken into the nursery at night and fed formula. (1997)

This is so odd! My babies weren't taken into the nursery at night and fed formula - this was in London.

I trained as a midwife and had DC in the late 80s. BF was certainly promoted and most of the health benefits to the baby were known, especially regarding immunity.

Even normal deliveries were routinely kept in hospital for five days and the CMW visited daily for ten days (twice a day for the first 3days if you were home!) so there was plenty of help and support available.

But advice was quite often inconsistent and anecdotal rather than evidence based. Tongue tie was almost never diagnosed let alone treated. Bottles were freely available and ‘topping up’ was very common, sometimes without consent.

The babies went to a nursery at night, not compulsory but most did end up there and the staff did a lot of feeding. This was in an old fashioned building with long wards.

Later we moved to a new unit with mainly single rooms where it was much harder for the staff to give as much time or notice if someone was struggling. Then discharge became earlier and earlier and CMW visits became virtually extinct. I think that whilst not perfect the PN care and support in the 80s was far superior. (In the 60s and 70s BF was far less promoted and bottle feeding was quite fashionable)

I BF and so did virtually everyone I knew.

I had my babies in 1983 and 1989. I read a book called Breast is Best and just got on with it and fed them both until they weaned themselves at just over 12 months. It never occurred to me that it might not work as my DGM had fed my DM in the 1920s and my DM had fed me in the 1950s. I just got on with it.

I had DC1 at home and was well supported by the community midwives. I had DC2 in hospital and once they knew I had fed DC1, they left me to it.

For what it's worth, all my friends at least gave BF a good go and most carried on at least until they went back to work at six months.

I had a baby in 1974 and another in 1984.
1974 - little support, lots of 'rod for your own back' type comments, in hospital for either a week or possibly ten days (can't remember!).
1984 - health visitors very supportive, benefits of colostrum known and understood, home the same day.
BF both of them until they were over 2 (I was determined, had my own ideas). No pumps - might have been just a new thing for my second but didn't exist for my first. I think they tried to get me to supplement feed with my first but not with my second, but then, as I say, I was home the same day with her. She was born early morning I was home after lunch.

My DC1 was born in 1986 and I think our hospital was probably quite progressive. You had to stay in for 5 days and everything was supplied. There were 4 of us on the ward and only one was FF. She was given dinky little bottles regularly.

The babies were with us all the time unless you specifically asked for them to be taken away. If they screamed too much in the night a nurse would take them down to the nurses station.

We were shown how to bath them and change them, and had each other for company, in an era before mobile phones, and dads hanging out on the wards.

You were expressly forbidden from putting the baby on the bed, and if they found you asleep with the baby in the bed they would put it back in the cot. 18 months later, same hospital, they were tucking the baby in the bed with you to help you to feed

Midwives had time to sit with you and help you latch on. I think the expectation was you would try breastfeeding but then I was determined to anyway. When we were discharged everyone else got a sample pack of formula and I didn't. The benefits of colostrum were widely known so you were expected to at least try to breastfeed.

They did say 10 minutes each side, and remember which side you started with and start with the other side first next time.

A friend had her DC1 a few months before mine in a different county and theirs went to a night nursery, so I think it varied by area/hospital.

I had my DC in 2012 & 2013 and each time the midwives took them to the nurses station so I could sleep (once they had been fed) they were brought back for me to breastfeed. I was ill and on antibiotics after each so not sure if this was why .

I was told to drink Guinness every day after the birth, but I could not stand it, so DH advised me to drink stout instead!

No pressure to BF or FF. Either way you were supported - the midwife asked me which I preferred (FF) and she showed me the cupboard where the milk was kept and explained the different types of teat and that was that. Lady in the next bed wanted to BF and the midwife sat with her a while and helped. How you chose to feed your baby really wasn't a thing.

Everything was explained and whichever method of feeding you wanted to do and you were supported by midwives throughout your stay. I have a very positive experience of being in hospital after my DC's were born and I feel very sad for mums today who want to FF and who from reading these boards appear to have little or no support.

no men allowed either which was good a thing as far as I'm concerned but a whole different subject so I'll leave it at that

Information was available but breastfeeding, co-sleeping and child-centred parenting was ‘making a rod for your own back’ in the 1980s.

As someone who gave birth in the 1980s, this advice was not the norm in SE London. Both my DC were BF for 9 months and neither ever had formula or a bottle. I fed both on demand, both co-slept with DH and me. I don't remember any breast pumps on the ward. I stayed in hospital longer after the births than now, so BF was well established before I went home. Most of my friends BF, but I had one friend who bottle fed and it was very much up to individual choice, there was no guilt shaming either way.

Honestly I don’t think the “ten minutes per side” advice is a bad thing in the first few days. For both of mine, I did exactly what was advised, latched for as long as they wanted before my milk came in. Lots of people checked the latch and said it was fine; I didn’t experience any pain while feeding on day 1. And each time the baby suckled away for ages. And the result, within a few hours of birth, seriously blistered, cracked, bleeding nipples than then for rapidly infected which contributed to mastitis.

Ten minutes each side to get colostrum and top up with formula, after the feed from the very start, would probably have saved my nipples, my health, my mental health too. It also would have saved the heavy case of jaundice and serious weight loss in my first (at least I was sensible enough to top up with my second earlier and the jaundice wasn’t so severe).

I also am hugely supportive of allowing post-partum women adequate rest. I did believe so heavily at the time in all the skin-to-skin, constant BF, not a drop of formula. The “exclusive” and “on demand” nature of modern BF advice is failing women like me, for whom on demand meant seriously injured nipples from day 1.

As well as asking about advice in the 80s, I’d ask about outcomes too. I bet babies who were fed formula overnight in nurseries and given top-ups when required had much lower rates of jaundice and dehydration.

In any case, I think a balanced approach to feeding choices is best. And I am entirely pro-choice on this; the mother should choose whether and how to use her breasts without this external pressure we have today.

We were all born in the 80s, breast is Best but not pushed and formula easily available.

Breastfeeding was just ten mins on each side and back down until they woke. No fuss and palaver about it, very straightforward.

Babies born 1985 1987 & 1989. Kept in 7 days first time, not allowed to walk anywhere for two days. . 5 days kept in for second , could get of bed after 24 hrs & 1 day for the Third., up about whenever you were happy too. Bottles freely given each time, nappies provided, & clothes. Just bought your own in to go home. All brought home on my knee in back of the car.

One born in 2004, up and showered hour after birth, baby born at 1am, home by 10am. Absolutely nothing provided. Own milk, own nappies. Baby born unexpectedly and I had nothing with me, came up to ward wrapped in a towel taped with sticking plaster, like a big nappy. I was inconsolable, forever grateful to the young mums who gave me nappies, lent me a babygrow, & shared their formula.

80’s was better for supplies in hospitals & visits from midwives at home, but very much no nonsense advice. 20yrs later, hospital very much a production line, but advice is more sound. I was genuinely shocked at the lack of after care.

I had my baby in 1986 in Ireland.
I was the only Mum on the ward who breastfed and I was treated like a queen.
A nurse used to make me a cup of tea and sit with me during the night feeds, I could get as many drinks as I wanted, tea, milk, water. They seemed to be kinder and more gentle with me than the other Mums or so if seemed to me.

My first DD was born 1999 and the new mums at my hospital could make up their own minds and BF was not overly pushed if they chose to FF. I got no help with BF, no advice about colostrum, no help with latching on. I struggled with BF but even after I left hospital when I spoke to the MW about it, I was given no help. I wish I'd had access to the support new mums get today.

By 1992, it wasn't 'promoted' to formula feed, but there was no real mention of BF in NHS antenatal classes other than 'We have to tell you it's better. You can get mastitis, go to a sex shop and you can buy a numbing spray to stop your nipples hurting and you'll need breast pads in your hospital bag in case you leak milk in front of everybody'.

There were racks of individual formula available to all Mums on the wards and it took a week to get an appointment with the Breastfeeding Advisor, by which time you'd been berated by the midwives for having a baby crying at night when that could be solved by giving them a bottle and that you were being silly wanting to BF when you'd had a section. All the posters were conspicuously provided by formula manufacturers (and, going by the stickers/painted on logos, a hell of a lot of the ward equipment, such as scales, baths, etc).

The food was shit in hospital if any even turned up for you and it was impossible to get yourself a drink as you weren't allowed to take the baby with you to the day room, but you weren't allowed to have drinks on the ward or to ask a midwife to watch the baby whilst you got some water.

When the BF baby lost weight as feeding started, you'd be subject to 'They've lost weight. What are you giving them?' comments with the unspoken 'this is a Really Bad Thing' lingering in the air and an instruction to come back and wait three hours in a sweaty clinic next week to 'keep an eye on this, as it's not good for them'.

Add to that the Expert Older Parents who would mutter (or shout) about how your baby only cried because you weren't feeding them enough and it's hardly surprising that BF rates were low.

The NCT classes were a bit better as they at least gave the impression it was genuinely the best option for babies wherever possible. And they described the 'American Football Player Hold' for avoiding hurting a section scar, which was the only way either of mine would latch on, even the one that wasn't born by section.

I know my two brothers were BF in the 80’s and I was early 90’s

I chose to breastfeed and was encouraged all the way. DS was in special care for a while and I was given every chance to pump so that I could occasionally go home to rest.

We were kept in for a week so had plenty of rest. Baby went to nursery at night but we were woken to feed so no disturbance in the ward and we could sleep.

Yes, to 10 minutes per side, and I was helped to get comfortable as I'd had an induction and episiotomy so was very very uncomfortable.

Much prefer my experience to the ones my DDs and DiL had.

Of my friends, three breastfed and one ff.

DD was born in 1981. The hospital encouraged breastfeeding but didn’t push it aggressively. At a guess about half the women in my ward breast fed. Babies were in the nursery at night and brought to you for feeds. All very civilised! Oh, and I just remembered. Breast feeders were offered a can of Guiness or Sweet Stout every evening - I developed quite a taste for Sweet Stout . I was in hospital for 9 days - 10 days was the standard stay after a section in those days but I managed to get released a day earlier by dint of much begging and pleading. I do think new mums get chucked out too quickly now, especially first timers.