AIBU to think we were miss sold this short break by Haven?

[givemebooks]

I could really do with some advice with how to take this complaint we made to haven holidays forward

Just before the may bank holiday we looked for last minute getaways in the UK and we found a good deal for 4 nights min to fri to Haven Church Farm.

Even more great as we wanted to check the site and look in to buying our own caravan at haven

So i contacted Haven by chat as last year we discovered that both my son and husband were Coeliac so i want to check if the site did any gluten free food

As this was a break to relax!! Quick breakfast at the van but main meals would be at the restaurant while the kids enjoyed the pool and other facilities.

I was assured that they provide gluten free options and could ask for the menu or the allergy list in the restaurant, so we booked

Drove from yorkshire to sussex and arrived van was nice and we were happy we headed to to main complex and had a drink decided to ask about the gluten free menu or allergy list to look over while we settled in with a drink and order later.

The young lad on the bar just said we dont do gluten free stuff sorry!?

I was a bit shocked as so far we had never been anywhere that could not do something?

So i asked a waitress thinking as working more with the food she might know more what i meant! But again was told as they don't have 2 kitchens they don't do allergy food?? They could tell me the ingredients if i wanted but they were not 100% and she said they were very busy and really did not have time for stuff like this!!

I was quite shocked, we had our drinks and drive out to chichester to eat and go to tesco so long story short we spent the whole trip driving around to eat or trying to cook for 5 in the cara an with 1 shelf in the tiny oven!

I was so angry as i would never have booked this break if i had known the issue with the food so i tweeted haven to be given an email to contact customer relations

Not only did the chat service say they provided allergy food, they had a sign in the resturant and it was printed on the menus!! It is also in havens own terms and conditions!! On the website!

I was then told that haven would not respond until 14 days after the end of the trip???

I did mention it to the reception onsite they put notes on my booking but the only option they had for dealing with complaints was resutrant vouchers!! Which was they very thing we could not use!

So it took after much chasing 23 days for haven to FINALLY respond to the complaint

And the stated that they do not provide gluten free food it is a company policy all parks for bourne leisure follow this and they were sorry but that was it!

So AIBU to think i was miss sold my break? And request a full refund!? I replied to haven with all my evidence and its been a week and they have not answered yet!

I expect it will be weeks again!

So i am right? Should i keep going with this??

Also a heads up to ANY food allergy or Coeliacs Haven is a place to avoid!!!!!

I will try and attach pictures of the signs and email!

Sorry I think asking for a full refund is beyond grabby! You stayed in the caravan and made use of the facilities, you just couldn’t use an additional paid for facility that was not included in the price of your break. I think asking for any sort of refund is cheeky.

I went to Haven a couple of weeks ago (Norfolk) and it rained all weekend. I had booked a prestige caravan with decking - should I have asked for a refund as I couldn’t utilise what I had paid for? No, it doesn’t work like that. You got what you paid for which is the caravan and use of the park, anything else is down to yourselves. It is annoying but at least you know not to buy a caravan at this park I always find the onsite restaurants crap anyway, they always seem to be run by kids, crap food and expensive drinks. But we love Haven still and just eat offsite.

You can't use the T&C's as part of your complaint as it doesn't state anywhere that gluten free food is available just that their staff would be knowledgeable - which clearly there weren't and were somewhat rude to mention that they were too busy to help. The photographs of menus are going to be your biggest evidence, however, as they were taken after you got there they could argue that you can't have booked using that as knowledge of the food availability. Do you have a copy of the chat? I know you can save a transcript from some companies so that would help.

You would not likely get a full refund of the holiday as they did provide the holiday you paid for ie a self catering caravan with swimming etc.

That said, you specifically asked about being able to eat onsite and told you could and not being able to has affected your enjoyment of the holiday.

I would look at the number of miles you had to travel to find food and times that by 45p which is the HMRC mileage rate as a start.

Add some cost for inconvenience of time spent travelling, one of you wouldn't have been able to drink with your meal as you drove etc. Were the meals more costly themselves than the meals on site?

So work out how much you were out of pocket and use that as a starting point when asking for compensation but expect them to probably only pay a potion of the claim.

Twitter is a great place to cause a storm, tag them and other gluten free twitter handles (I assume there is s gluten free society etc) and just bombard them with tweets. That should help.

Op would not have booked there if she had know about the lack of gluten free food.
They wouldnt have travelled miles to get there wsting time and money on a holiday that didnt suit their needs at all.
They wouldnt have had to spend time and petrol gadding about looking for food they could eat and cooking in a cramped caravan kitchen.
They would have been relaxing and enjoying the facilities instead.

Damm right she should complain and ask for a full refund. Haven promised something they didnt have and thats false advertising.
Op paid for something she didnt get - a relaxing break with meals provided on site they could buy. Instead they were stressed out, had to buy meals elsewhere and fobbed off.
Pathetic customer service. Companies need pulling up on this type of thing. They think they can get away with fobbing customers off for poor service unless people stand up and complain.

How can you ask for compensation for food shopping or meals out ? ...unless it was a all inclusive holiday in a caravan :S then you would’ve spent that money anyhow..just at the campsite restaurant rather than a restaurant in the neighbouring town.

If you spent Monday - friday purely driving to food establishments that’s ridiculous.
You should’ve carried on as normal, but should’ve eaten BEFORE you got back to the campsite as you knew you couldn’t get food there.

@givemebooks

As people have pointed out, the terms just say they can advise. However i don't think you are wrong to complain about the service if you feel they were rude. If you have a copy of the chat where they stated they have a gluten free menu then you should forward that to them as that is misleading.

Unfortunately I think you will find this becoming more and more common - there has been a slight regression in places being helpful to people with allergies due to a lot of recent incidents (google the blogger Talkbeckytalk and Wetherspoons or the girl Natasha who died after eating a Pret sandwich). This means it's actually very hard for anywhere to say they do anything allergy free as the controls have been tightened. I know for example that Pret have now put signs up everywhere and the allergy book can only be consulted by a supervisor - they no longer let every member of staff have that responsibility.

yes thats cleverly worded to make it look like they are doing great things but really telling you they arent and in telling you in a polite and mannered way its in the end your choice and they arent doing fuck all for allergies.

I was initially going to say yanbu . But that wording doesn’t sound to me like a claim to provide gluten free options. I would interpret that to mean that they may not have gluten free options and that cross contamination can’t be ruled out. Sorry OP

i also no the rules of labeling now are rediculous.so they have to put it might contain if somewhere on the other side of the facotry a room did nuts.even when they are 100%sure this product never.
or they will may contain all nuts when actually it only contains peanut but they dont have specified labels so just do the common nuts labeling

@Willow2017 the OP has to have proof that she was promised something she then couldn't have.

cocobeanstalk they wouldn’t have been leaving the site if they hadn’t needed to go for food though

When I was a student I worked for a large chain restaurant. When ordering food with an allergy or intolerance we had to say that we could not be 100% sure that the food didn't contain the allergen as we prepared food in the kitchen that did have the allergen.
Haven does have gluten free options on the menu but they can't guarantee that the food won't be contaminated with gluten during the cooking process.
The only way for any kitchen to say they are gluten free is if they don't cook gluten on site or have a separate gluten free kitchen.

I find it hard to believe that they sold nothing that was GF in their restaurants (although I’ve not been to a haven site for about 20 yrs ) . The problem for coeliacs eating out anywhere is the cross contamination risk and frankly that is something every coeliac individual has to decide on .Its unrealistic to expect anywhere to have separate ovens / kitchens for coeliacs . You paid for a SC caravan holiday and that’s what you got in effect so I don’t see how you could claim anything but minimal compensation . If we were going away SC we would take gf supplies ( we don’t however go sc) .

Willow2017 but it’s sold as a self-catering caravan so it’s not false advertising. They did not advertise a relaxing break with all meals provided onsite. By all means complain about the staff onsite not being able to advise as they should have and the menus, but how does that equate to a FULL refund?

I have just been off to double check and i have no copy of the chat, just wondered if it had been emailed to my spam folder or anything! I had hope, but no, its my word against theres!

I guess i have peoples opinions so thank you I dont want to be grabby!, i read the terms and then contacted Haven i this case by chat and asked about gluten free food

I thought i had done everything i could to know my family could eat on site i would never have risked it other wise as it would lead to the break we did have of my husband driving around!

And me getting miffed at a one shelf mini caravan cooker 😂

I cannot get it to post pics

The sign in the resturant bybthe order point said

Food allergy notice
If you have a food allergy or dietary requirement please speak to a member of our team when ordering who will be happy to assist you

With little pictures of fish, wheat, nuts and shellfish underneath

The menu said

For more information on all the allergens in our dishes and menus just ask a member of staff. Please advise of allergies when ordering

My point is they are saying they will provide a list of all the ingredients in each dish and they could not do this when we asked

It a pointless exercise to put these signs up and things on the menu when the answer is just no

They are putting on a show of been happy to help and inclusive but really they don't do any allergy food as they say they need a separate kitchen

Havens response to me

20th June 2019

Dear Miss Smith,

Firstly I would like to apologise for the lack of correspondence you have received, and I am really sorry you have needed to contact us again regarding the issue in the Mash and Barell restaurant here at Church Farm.

Unfortunately, we do not supply Gluten free food or allergy food as we would need a separate kitchen and we do not have the facilities for this. This is a Bourne -Leisure policy which has been sent through to all of our parks from the Head office team. I would like to assure you that we take the care of our customers very seriously and this passion and this focus makes up the central core of our training programmes, so I was very disappointed and surprised to read of the poor attitude you experienced from some of our team members on park.

I would like to offer my apologies once again, as your holiday experience was affected on this occasion. Please rest assured that we are committed to delivering outstanding customer service at all times and I hope that this experience will not deter you from returning to us again in the future.

I would lastly like to thank you for your patience throughout this process, I completely understand it can feel frustrating.

Kind regards,

Guest Relations

Did you speak to a restaurant manager at any point? As you just mention speaking to a bartender and waitress whilst in the restaurant then someone at reception later on. It seems to be a bit of a leap to go from speaking to a waitress to coming home and trying to contact head office and talking about small claims courts without dealing with someone at the site at the time who probably could have helped.

In many places now, only managers or chefs are able to deal effectively with allergy processes. If it was really busy then a waitress might not want to try to sort that out so could have been fobbing you off, or may not have been trained enough to know about allergens. I would definitely have persisted with the matter. Gluten intolerances are normally pretty easy to cater for with things like burgers with no buns and veg, even if they don't have a specifically gluten free menu on offer.

Well it's a bit crap isn't it? Left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing (online chat v actual reality). And those signs are disingenuous at best if they can't actually help with people with allergies or provide you with ingredients.

Dear OP,

By failing to provide either written information about the allergens in their food or to provide reliable information from their staff the company are breaking the law. The law requires that food businesses such as restaurants ensure:

Information on allergenic ingredients must be either
written up front (for example on a menu or menu board) without the customer having to ask for information
sign-posted to where written information can be found or obtained
sign-posted to say that oral information can be obtained from a member of staff
if information on allergenic ingredients is provided orally, this must be consistent and verifiable (i.e. a business must have processes in place to capture information from recipes or ingredients lists from products bought in, and make this available to staff)
This section is relevant for businesses that have direct interaction with their customers, such as restaurants, sandwich shops and bakers.
It is important that customers with food allergies or intolerances are able to make informed choices when choosing products. All staff serving customers should be made aware of the potential risks to customers' health if they advise them incorrectly. A process must be in place to ensure that allergen information can be easily obtained and is accurate and consistent.
Customers are strongly advised to speak to staff regarding their allergy requirements. If a member of staff is unsure of the answer to a customer's question, they must ask somebody who knows.

The above is taken from the food standards agency website:

allergytraining.food.gov.uk/english/customers-and-consumer-advice/

The issue that I would focus on is less on the poor information they provided at booking (although I would mention that) than on the fact that they are breaking the law by failing to provide accurate allergen information on site. You could also raise this with the local trading standards. Social media is your friend here.

If the caravan is haven’s the OP clearly can’t claim for mileage. Nor can she claim for a full refund (I mean technically you can, but you won’t be able to substantiate this claim in court) OP if you have proof that they stated they provide gluten free options in those words you can claim for any additional expense & this can include your time, incurred by yourselves due to their ‘breach of contract’ as the ability to provide gluten free food formed your decision to go on this holiday provided by them.

Those signs are not going to help you with a claim. They do not promise you gluten free food.You can of course complain abiut the staff lack of knowledge but that would most likely result in some sort of voucher compensation not a refund.

We had a horrific stay in a Haven site (Lake District) - the van we had was so called Prestige and it was full of mould, stank, was filthy and the mattresses so filthy and stained I was in tears at the thought of sleeping on them. The settee covers were torn and grubby, the fridge had food in so we wondered if it had even been cleaned. Our beds were not made up even though we'd paid for it, and at 11pm at night, we had to go to security who had to find some but not enough bed linen. The main areas for food, drink and pool were disgusting and mainly shut for owner use only. We only stayed 3 days, it was that bad.

Complained repeatedly, put photos on social media. Got £50 back.

Never used them again. We book cottages these days.

I should have explained the waitress turned out was the restaurant team leader that day,

I did not want to be demanding the manager honsetly confrontation is not my strong point but i did ask if the manger was there to give feedback and explain more to us

she told me she was the team leader for the day and she would forward my points on she was quite rude and dismissive and she advised me if i wanted to make a complaint to go to the haven main reception and speak to the site team

All of which i put on my big girl pants and did (i hate complaining!!), it was them that explained the only option they had for complaints was restaurant vouchers which they laughed at as they were useless to us

The site manager advised emailing customer relations

I was been brave posting in AIBU and i see i have a mixed bag so i am not quite sure what to do

Its my word against theres but there whole post and signs seem like they are inclusive but they are not! Which just seems wrong

Also surly they should have an allergy book i know eating out as a coeliac is always a risk due to cross contamination, no one is perfect but with the correct info you can make a choice

The main point stands if they had said they dont do any allergy food i would not have booked

Saying that they don’t provide allergen free food/ menu does not mean that they do not have to comply with the law that requires them to show what allergens are actually present! People with allergies are not stupid and will appreciate the risks of cross contamination. They need accurate information from which to be able to make a risk assessment about what to order. For some a small amount of an allergen from cross contamination will be no problem and they will order. For others it could be potentially very serious and they will be much more cautious.

Maybe it would help OP to ask for this to be moved to the legal forum ?

www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/allergen-guidance-for-food-businesses

The menu online says that for more information on allergens you can ask a member of their team. Considering they are not complying with this, regardless of previous chat history or expectations, it is worth pursuing as a complaint as the staff need some training.

Isn't some food just intrinsically gluten free? steak or chicken or fish and salad / veg. an omelette with salad etc, didn't they have anything like that? i dunno, i kind of think its' s unrealistic to expect to expect a commercial food premises to be able to guarantee gluten free / dairy free / nut free for a range of menu items, it must be incredibly complex ensuring no cross contamination for a range of allergies