To ask: how many good teachers are we losing this year?

[SachaStark]

I am one of you.

Asking partly out of a place of seeking solidarity as I plan to leave a profession I love very much, but which has exhausted me both mentally and physically in just six years.

And partly because I think many parents still need to be made aware of how many teachers their children will lose over their school careers these days. I think, really, we need to rely on their voices to speak up in vast numbers before any changes will be made in state education.

We are a month now from the end of the school year in England, so notice hand-in period has ended, and I wondered how many, like me, who are passionate teachers, who in another life would have spent another few decades in the profession, are going?

We're losing 3 teachers, all with around 5 years teaching. We're in London, 2 are leaving to move to parts of the country where they can afford to buy a house, the 3rd is leaving as she is pregnant and feels full time childcare is so expensive it's not worth her while working.
Next year we're definitely losing another 3. 2 will be retiring early (at 55yo and 60yo) and I'm moving out of London - haven't decided if I'll stay in teaching yet.
Our school is starting to find it difficult to recruit, we used to get over 100 applicants for posts, now we get a handful. We had to advertise twice to fill our posts this year.

The English education system is broken. It really is that simple. Schools do not have the power to permanently remove disruptive pupils (for fear it will trigger Ofsted and all that which follows) and so behaviour in lessons is, almost without doubt, poor in a majority of classes. This is the overriding factor in why so many teachers leave - I think.

Teachers can not just be teachers, they are expected to cure all of societal ills at the same time. Teachers really do have to act as social workers, provide support to parents, providing food for those children who come to school without breakfast (quite often from personal funds) and counsel pupils and often their families through difficulties. I know as I have done all of this.

Add in ridiculous targets; crazy marking and planning policies; constant scrutiny; curriculum changes which seem to be focused on making sure pupils and teachers are stretched beyond capacity and then no child being allowed to fail despite attendance of below 70% makes teaching a shit storm that is about to explode.

Of course I haven’t mentioned SLT which subscribes to the Peter Principle - people are promoted to their level of incompetence - I see now many, many young teachers over promoted with only a year’s experience under their belt making some quite significant decisions about schools. They are young and ambitious and there is a dearth of experienced staff about as they have had to go due to being too expensive. It is farcical to watch but not so funny to be part of.

I now work in an indie and my DD attends the same one. She will never sit a SATs paper and I am determined to keep her away from state Ed because it just isn’t fit for the purpose.

And to the PP who said teachers need to be aware of jobs outside of education and the pressures that exist there, well I did a graduate programme when I left uni and managed my own department for 18 months after training. It was really hard both physically and emotionally but ultimately unrewarding. I went into education 20 years ago and found it just as hard then but with reward. Now I can’t see how working in state Ed is rewarding, it is just one big hard slog.

Working in an indie I actually felt treated like an adult and a professional. About two important emails a day.

In the state sector I was treated like a naughty child. It was constant nitpicking about pointless stuff that had no impact on learning. About forty odd emails about non issues a day. But the worst thing was the huge distances between slt and staff. I remember when slt were trusted and experienced teachers who you looked up to and who were supportive because they had been there themselves. Now, they are much more apprentice style ruthless, it's all about covering backs and looking good. They know we know that they were crap in the classroom and this makes them very uncomfortable and on attack mode all the time. Although I have seen some excellent slt when on courses or training elsewhere, so must just be the few schools I've worked in.

I meant to add, if slt had to prove they were actually good teachers before becoming management then 80% of what's crap about the job would go.

@historysock if I were you I would take a qualification in SEN instead, or do an English pgce and go down that route. Not many jobs in the humanities generally least not in anywhere half decent!

@winewolfhowls - Great idea re training to work in SEN. I did a Primary PGCE last year and had a horrible time due to being in a bitchy and unsupportive Primary school placement.
I went on supply and worked in loads of schools, SEN and mainstream, and finally got my mojo back after doing a 6 month contract an alternative provision for secondary kids from the Pru.
I am so glad I made the switch as I'm doing my NQT year in a massive SEND school which seems like a great place to work, having supply taught there on many occasions.
Do consider SEND schools if mainstream is grinding you down folks, I've met so many happy escapees from mainstream at my current school.

I'm not a teacher, but ds2 had to leave secondary school due to bullying and he's thriving at an online school now.

An increasing number of youngsters are having to be withdrawn due to them being bullied and disrupted class environments. Perhaps some teachers could look into that option as opposed to leaving the profession altogether. If anybody messes around in ds' class, the teacher automatically blocks them from communicating with the other students and their parents are contacted. Some LEAs pay for online schooling, so it's not elitist and many kids wouldn't otherwise be able to receive an education without it, so it's a valuable resource.

i did ten years and left after having my second child. I loved many aspects of the job, but just couldn't cope with it any more. People as if i'll go back and i don't think I ever will.

I’ve just been reading about online schooling it looks fabulous. I would have loved it as a pupil (apart from the obvious flaw which is my practical subject can’t be taught online!). They don’t seem to be recruiting though- I imagine they are overrun with talented teachers who are seduced by the idea of just muting the mic of a troublesome pupil 🤣

I had an interview at one of the online schools. Pay was bad.
They don't differentiate.
Wasn't great tbh

Do you mean teaching is not differentiated or wages?

Resurrecting this thread this morning, especially after seeing the other one currently running about leaving teaching.

Anybody else feeling odd about not going back next week/not having gone back during the last couple of weeks? I’m roughly 50% incredibly relieved to have my evenings and weekends back, and 50% feeling the anxiety of waiting for supply jobs to start, and I think just the residual feelings of stress in the middle of the night before I remember that I’m not going back: “Oh my god, I haven’t planned Year 8 yet!... Oh yeah, I don’t have to...”

I qualified as a primary teacher in 2014. I taught for around 13 years before enough was enough. I've been working as a SEN HLTA for three years now and can't see myself ever returning to classroom teaching. I'd rather be skint and have time for my kids and fiancé than better off and miserable!

I'm not a teacher but I am a parent to a pre schooler. My cousin is a newly qualified secondary teacher and seems to love it. What is it about the job that makes so many teachers want to leave? And on the flip side what makes so many want to join it?! I do worry about school for my little one but what can I do about it - cant afford private school so just have to roll with my punches when she does start. I think the issue these days is the entitlement and lack of respect from parents transferring to their equally rude children creating an impossible working environment. But I'm not a teacher so its just my perspective from the outside looking in.

I'm 22 years in. Still wouldn't do anything else.

Partly, let's be honest, it's the pay and the holidays. I can't find anything else to go to that will pay me £40k. And I love the time off with my kids.

Last year I had a great class, with very few issues and no overtly challenging or demanding pupils.

And at the moment, my school's demand for paperwork isn't unmanageable, although the number of changes and initiatives the ambitious DH wants us to we try to take on is a bit much.

Ask me in a couple of years when the curriculum has been completely changed and the number of unruly kids who just trash your classroom or attack other pupils or just run away have continued to become more of the norm in classes rather than the extremely unusual and we will see what I feel then!

A ex headteacher I know at secondary level said we have lost 42,000 this year!

Two of my best friends are excellent teachers who have just left. One has moved to teach in Spain after 18 years as she just couldn't do it any more here. The other has quit to focus on her new business - she has been running it as a hobby/second job for a couple of years now and is finally at the point where it is feasible to do it full time. She looks ten years younger already, it's like a massive weight has lifted from her.

I feel the same as you do @SachaStark. I’m borderline terrified I won’t earn enough doing supply and I don’t know what else to do. At more rational moments I know I couldn’t have gone on anyway and that supply will come in.

I think that what makes teachers leave has been well documented and has been so on this thread.

As for what makes people decide to join the teaching profession, despite prolific evidence to the contrary, there is still a feeling that it’s family friendly with short days and long holidays. I do think that perception is changing, but it isn’t until you are in it, that you realise it’s very family unfriendly and the stress levels are very high. I know that many jobs have high stress levels, too, but I think it’s been difficult to persuade people how challenging teaching is.

It certainly is very much more so than it was when I started, when there was a certain flexibility and understanding that professionals could be expected to do a good job, without being scrutinised every second.

Well I tried to get in to teaching this year. Late acceptance to the schools direct course on August 7th. Couldn't get a slot for the bloody QTS maths test at any of the 5 test centres within a 79 mile radius of where I live.
Uni said No extensions on the deadline. They are scrapping the tests in a month anyway.
Will have to reapply from scratch next year.
I've spent three weeks of my annual leave this year doing classroom practice.
Nearly £200 getting hold of my gcse transcripts from 1996....
All summer revising maths I will never use when teaching secondary school history.
I'm giving up a fairly well paid job in which I'm well respected (social work). It's so frustrating!

There doesn't seem to be any common sense involved in the process and the uni aft like they are doing you a favour in accepting you at all 🤷🏽‍♀️. Very off putting. I've never known anything like it!

I left teaching in 2010 and I'm still upset and angry about how the career I dreamed of caused me to have a mental breakdown and nearly take my own life.

I'm in a much, much better place now but what can I do now with a degree in primary education?

I wish I had done a degree in a subject as at least I might be able to use it to get another job.

This thread is alarming. It's something every parent should be very concerned to read.

As an undergraduate I held a temporary summer job with the local authority's Occupational Health team. This was in around 2000. I had access to the personnel records and the number of teachers on longterm sick leave was noticeably greater than any other sector.

To the PP who was desperate enough to contemplate taking her life: I'm so sorry you were in such a terrible place. I teach in a university, and things in that sector are rapidly going the same way. A colleague in my union very tragically did take his life, citing workplace bullying.

Education is crucial to our country's future, yet conditions for educators are becoming (or probably have already become) intolerable. In other countries, teachers and lecturers are respected and properly paid. UK teachers are subject to horrendous pressures and a target-driven culture; in our universities bullying and sexism is rife and our lecturers are the lowest-paid in Europe.

@MarielVanArkleStinks I'm so sorry to hear about your colleague .

I found the paperwork/ nitpicking/ micromanagement / lack trust to know what my pupils needed/ toxic politics/ relentless meetings about data/ lack of thought of what is best for the children absolutely soul destroying.

@historysock: sorry that you didn't manage to do that all important maths test and the uni are being silly. I really do hope you get in next year because the profession needs good teachers with experience of life.
Don't worry that you have wasted "All summer revising maths I will never use when teaching secondary school history. " You will use it. There's a surprising amount of maths needed to teach any subject these days. You'll have a load of stats and data analysis to do on a very regular basis just to provide information to management and to prove that you and your pupils are on track and what you are doing about it and why.

Even when working in a special school I had to spend quite a few hours every week just crunching numbers, so secondary history will involve a lot more I expect.

I'm in my 19th year. I teach in FE. I wanted to leave for probably 7 years until last year.

I stopped doing most of the pointless shit (deep marking, handing stuff in for scrutiny, writing lesson plans etc) and I've had a great year. I've not been arsey, I just ignored anything I wasn't asked twice for and nobody chased up which backs up that it was pointless anyway!

I've had great results, spent little time working outside of hours, built really good relationships with some newer colleagues and I'm looking forward to term starting for the first time in years.