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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to discuss pay discrepancy with boss?

27 replies

Sunlove · 24/06/2019 12:02

I found out yesterday that a colleague that started at the same time as me is earning considerably more than I do.

I appreciate that his salary was higher as he had more experience at the time of hire, and have no issue with that.

The issue for me is that since we started employment I have been promoted and am often left in charge of the department when our boss is away, amongst other additional responsibilities, whilst my colleague has actually had his probation extended for not meeting targets etc. Even with my promotion and the pay rise that came with it he still earns more than me though.

AIBU to speak to my boss about this, or is it just a case of getting on with it and accepting that sometimes life isn’t fair?

OP posts:
Original poster
Sunlove · 24/06/2019 12:03

Just to clarify when we started we were hired to do the exact same job. It’s only since my promotion that the jobs roles have begun to differ.

OP posts:
boobirdblue · 24/06/2019 12:04

I would pitch it as I deserve more because of the responsibility and promotion. In your own right you deserve more, don't bring colleague into it.

Cath2907 · 24/06/2019 12:13

You should not know his salary. I don't know how you found out but where I work it is grounds for dismissal to tell someone what you earn. That is because of just this sort of issue. His salary cannot be lowered. Your salary can only be increased in line with the budget available for salary hikes and promotions. It is fairly normal for someone moving up internally not to end up on the same salary as someone who came in at a higher role from outside. Also the starting salary is negotiated at the time of hire so often 2 people hired on the same day for the same job will start on different salaries. You have 3 options:

  1. Say nothing - this is normal and rocking the boat may not help you
  2. Leave and get a job elsewhere and negotiate a higher salary
  3. Tell your boss you feel you are underpayed according to the market (try to find data to back you up) and ask for a one off market rate increase. Your company may not do these but if they do they can bump your pay on a one off basis to align you with normal for your industry. If your boss says no you are back to 1 or 2.
DontPressSendTooSoon · 24/06/2019 12:16

I once heard it said by a comp and bens specialist that there are only two times when you can negotiate your pay.. when you start and when you leave (or are at risk of leaving).

You need to incentivise your employer to offer you a pay rise by getting another job offer...otherwise what's in it for them?

thecatsthecats · 24/06/2019 12:18

Just to check, how did you find out about the salary discrepancy? Are you supposed to know?

I agree with gunning for the angle of your own performance first. If the basis for different pay was fair originally, I would work from the presumption that they're going to be fair again.

I had a similar situation last year, except that the woman in question was not only placed lower in the band due to relevant past experience, she was also the one who had performance issues! She was a bloody nightmare. Refused to accept the extreme qualitative difference in other staff's work and attitude. So if this guy is already an issue for them, you'll be doing them a favour by not dragging him into it ('why is she getting paid the same when I have more experience blah blah blah').

Proteinshakesandtears · 24/06/2019 12:19

I don't know how you found out but where I work it is grounds for dismissal to tell someone what you earn.

I would love to see them try and stand by that at a tribunal.

Anyway op, if you want a pay rise go for it. What he earns is largely irrelevant. He negotiated a better package than you. Unless you have proof they pay him more simply for being a man.

Hairwizard · 24/06/2019 12:20

By all means ask for a raise and give examples of why you feel its deserved, but you cant bring your colleagues salary into it, its none of your business(i dont mean that to be cheeky, i just mean you shouldnt know anyone elses salary)

thecatsthecats · 24/06/2019 12:20

DontPressSendTooSoon

Not my experience.

I got myself TWO significant payrises last year, one only six months after the other. There was another guy who wanted to angle for more pay but we declined because we didn't have work for him that justified his current or new pay as he'd upskilled, so he left, happily on both sides.

toomuchfaster · 24/06/2019 12:21

I disagree with Cath2907, this unnecessary level of secrecy is how the gender (sex?) pay gap was so hard to prove and start to address!!! However, I don't think a discussion to say 'I want more because he is paid more' is the way to go. A FOI request of salaries may help your cause as this could end in a discrimination court case. I would suggest legal advice before doing anything (including taking advice from people on the internet!!).

AnAC12UCOinanOCG · 24/06/2019 12:25

I'm in a similar position except the colleague is another woman. She has many more years' experience but I have slightly more responsibility and I'm better at the job. I suspect she's on about £15-20k more than me. I don't think I'd get far saying I want my salary to match hers but I do get a bit annoyed when I think about it.

tenbob · 24/06/2019 12:29

You should not know his salary. I don't know how you found out but where I work it is grounds for dismissal to tell someone what you earn.

Why shouldn't she know his salary?
I recently advertised a job in my department, and the ad included the salary. So when that person joined, everyone knew within £2k how much they were being paid

OP, do you have a mid-year appraisal at your work?
Or if not, can you make an appointment with your boss to sit down and discuss your mid-year performance against your targets/objectives?

As part of that conversation, it would be absolutely fine to say that you would like to be on target to get a pay rise in the new year, in order for your salary to reflect your additional responsibilities compared to junior members of the team, and is there anything else you need to do in the rest of the year to ensure that happens...

Original poster
Sunlove · 24/06/2019 12:29

Thank you for all your replies!

I found out as he told me! He (much like me tbf) assumed we were on the same salary and mentioned it casually in conversation while talking about buying a new car.

I totally agree that I wouldn’t go and say I deserve more just because x is on more than me. However, on reflection, I do feel that I’m not being paid in line with what would be expected for my new role so suspect that is the angle to approach it from.

OP posts:
melissasummerfield · 24/06/2019 12:33

Its is not illegal to discuss your salary 🙄

EBearhug · 24/06/2019 12:37

Do some research and find out what equivalent jobs (with your current responsibilities) are offering. Build a case for your payrise based on your value to the business.

Also, how mixed is the department? If you're the only woman, there's also the equal pay issue.

blaaake · 24/06/2019 12:41

I can't believe there are people on here that think people shouldn't know their colleagues salaries! Generally in this country people are much too closed off about discussing money, and this contributes to the gender pay gap. Stupid really.

coral13 · 24/06/2019 12:46

Slightly relevant...

'Apparently' one of the reasons why males end up higher salaries is because they see no shame in asking and and will ask whereas women feel more awkward and won't.

I got to the end of my tether and left my last job and when among many other reasons mentioned my pay, they asked why I didn't say anything before as they could have done something about it.

EBearhug · 24/06/2019 15:34

I can't believe there are people on here that think people shouldn't know their colleagues salaries!

When I was working for an investment bank a couple of decades ago, I raised the matter of pay with my manager, as a colleague had mentioned his. I was shut down with, "it's a sack able offence to discuss pay." That's why people often think it. However, the 2010 Equality Act means you can discuss it, if you're trying to find out if you're fairly paid, and secrecy clauses can't be enforced. That doesn't mean company culture has changed with it, and in my limited experience, people are often still very uncomfortable about discussing pay.

(In the first job I mentioned, the whole department had a pay audit a couple of years later, and I got a 26% payrise to level me up.)

Proteinshakesandtears · 24/06/2019 15:49

It maybe company culture

I have been told the same at my company. 'We do not allow employees to discuss pay'. To which my response was 'do you really believe you can enforce that, legally?'

Sadly I work in the HR department. And yes some of the people working in there genuinely believed it was enforceable.

If it's not enforceable, it's not a sackable offence and any company siting that or disciplining staff for talking about their own wages, would suffer badly at tribunals

ControversialFerret · 24/06/2019 15:58

You can't sack people for talking about their pay. Any firm which believes this to be true is clearly benefiting from the culture of secrecy - where there are gross disparities in salaries.

IMO everyone's salary band should be published alongside their position on the company org chart. There shouldn't be any mystery around pay.; it's this type of secrecy that allows the sex-based pay gap to flourish.

blaaake · 24/06/2019 18:37

@EBearhug sadly I don't find that too hard to believe as I started my career in a similar role. But nowadays I'd have the confidence to assert myself.

user1493413286 · 24/06/2019 18:39

I would go into focusing more on yourself deserving more and possible making a reference to being aware that others in the same role are on more but I wouldn’t lead with that and I’d probably only say it if you have to.
I’d start by saying that you feel you more deserve because of what you do.

EBearhug · 24/06/2019 23:18

But nowadays I'd have the confidence to assert myself.

So would I now, but back then, I was a recent graduate in my 20s, and I still thought life was fair...

thecatsthecats · 25/06/2019 15:26

I have been told the same at my company. 'We do not allow employees to discuss pay'. To which my response was 'do you really believe you can enforce that, legally?'

To be fair, we give the same instruction, just to discourage the more flagrant issues that can arise.

Our resident idiot made a very big deal about being paid less than her male colleague, who not only had relevant industry experience that he used daily in his work (effectively what we were paying for), he also didn't fuck up as often as she did.

But as I said - as she made her case based on what he earned, it made it very easy to deny her, because there were clear cut reasons we were paying him more. If she'd focused on - and improved - herself, she'd have succeeded.

Mummy0ftwo12 · 25/06/2019 15:30

Does your company have an equal pay policy?

cheeseypuff · 25/06/2019 15:32

By all means ask for a meeting to discuss your salary, but focus on the things that you do/ add to the company/ have been added to your remit to justify it. In my experience (working in HR & Payroll) managers do not take kindly to the "he/she's being paid more than me" school of negotiations!

To those saying that discussing wages is a sackable offence - I think an ET would disagree. Another poster has already pointed out that this kind of culture has led us to the current gender pay gap issues we still have despite the Equal Pay Act!

Good luck in your negotiations OP.