To think this is NOT arthritis

[Fucksandflowers]

And DH must see a doctor immediately?

Now, I have severe anxiety disorder so I well appreciate I may be being ridiculous here.

But here goes.
Apologies for the length...

13 years ago DH was lifting heavy stuff at work (ex construction), shortly after he developed a bit of back pain.

Over the course of 13 years he has seen many physiotherapists and chiropractors with no good outcome.

He has been prescribed a number of painkillers like naproxen which don't work and co codamol which can take the edge off a little.

The pain starts in the morning with stiffness, gradually gets a bit better with moving around then worse again in the evening.
Much worse in cold weather when his knees and fingers will also go stiff.

He is very fatigued and doesn't sleep well at night and recently has started 'sticking' as in he will bend down then cannot get back up, he is 'frozen/locked' into position.

Now DH is resistant to go to the doctors because he thinks it is arthritis, and because they refuse to give him an MRI, just fob him off with physio/chiro and cocodamol but I was talking to a friend who told me about two of her relatives who had long term back pain and turned out to have spinal tumours and died and my lovely dad, shortly before he died it was discovered he had a massive inoperable back abscess that they thought he would have had for a long time. He was in pain with his back for many months.

So obviously I am driving myself crazy thinking it's something really serious?

Arthritis is incredibly painful and I get annoyed when most people dismiss it as a bit of stiffness. Try a glucosamine, msm supplement as well as omega 3 and turmeric. And tell him to keep moving. Rest just makes it worse.

Try again! It does sound like osteoarthritis. If it was a tumour, the MRI would pick it up. He should go back and accept the intervention

It does sound like my osteoarthritis

If I were a horse they’d put me to sleep, sadly they’re not so kind to humans

My DH has had two operable spinal tumours. His symptoms were back and nerve pain that worsened steadily and were unaffected by movement/activity. Depending on where the tumours are they can be worse at night as lying down can compress impacted nerves. The pain came on slowly was pretty constant and markedly increased over time. Try not to worry though we were told they are very rare and that it’s also very unusual for them to be malignant. What you have described sounds more movement induced - arthritis?

DH has already started taking glucosamine, 1,500mg twice daily.
Only been taking it about a week though so early days.

Will look for MSM and omega 3.

I used to make him a spicy turmeric milk drink sometimes in the evening, I still have stacks of the powder left...

I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my knees following MRI scan. It was very painful initially and I felt like I had flu for a day or two and for a couple of months was extremely stiff in the mornings. It affected my mobility to the extent I found getting up and downstairs difficult. Although the pain got better I am still restricted in movement - can’t get down on my haunches for example. Though I can walk ok, if I walk a lot I feel it the next day. And feel tired too. I get the odd flare up when I need to take regular paracetamol. I’m waiting to see an orthopaedic surgeon currently. My left elbow is also affected, not painful but I can’t fully straighten it.

OP your DH does need to get a proper diagnosis even if it is arthritis which it certainly sounds like.

Get gp to refer to back specialist, could be slipped disc.
Not cancer, after 13 years would spread.

He needs to insist on being referred for an MRI. See another doctor if the first one refuses. You have to be your advocate with doctors (although I thought it was an X-ray that diagnosed arthritis?).

When my DH did his knee in he was told anti inflammatory Es and rest for a week, then X-ray to check for arthritis, then a referral to musculoskeletal clinic for further investigations incl an MRI if needed (which he had). He had a torn miniscus.

Your DH should not keep being told to try painkillers and physio if it's not working.

In our area you get sent to physio, then to pain management classes. It took ages for DH to get an MRI. He had to have a disc replaced & spinal fusion. I think it's their way of keeping down the waiting list!

Arthritis is incredibly painful and I get annoyed when most people dismiss it as a bit of stiffness.

I don't get annoyed, but I silently wish it on them for a day or two, just so that they know. I can tolerate the routine pain ok, but when one bit or other has a flare-up, it does my head in.

I've just been through several weeks when one knee has been so painful that it feels like someone is stabbing it with a red hot knife every time I get out of a seat or go up a step. It's been bringing tears to my eyes and there have been a couple of times when I've really cried with pain, rage and frustration.

Oddly, it's hugely improved over the last couple of days (I wonder if that's because the weather had warmed up?) and it's such a relief. I feel like a different person and actually managed to do some gardening today.

I have psoriatic arthritis. It has spoiled my quality of life and I have to choose between being on a drug that makes me vomit and lose my hair, or I can't use my fingers or walk. I have small children and it's very upsetting. It really irritates me to see it being minimised.

It does sound like arthritis but he should still see the GP. There are other treatment options for arthritis than just physio or pain killers. Also, its important to rule out other conditions and to have his joints monitored by a specialist.

Morning stiffness, tiredness, goes in bouts of bad and not so bad...but won't go to the doctor....

Men are likely to have two inflammatory conditions more than others - one is Psoriatic Arthritis - you don't need to have obvious Psoriasis first - and the other is Anklyosing Spondylitis. (not 100% on the spelling, but that's because I have PsA so don't need to know it).

Both are known to affect the spine. As can Rheumatoid Arthritis and pretty much all the other types.

Do any of his family have arthritis early, a relative who was ill/in pain with no apparent reason? Somebody with deformed hands as they got older? Even somebody who dropped dead early from cardiomyopathy/a heart attack without any sign of heart disease or a history of smoking?

Has he ever had bloods and inflammatory markers tested? He needs ESR, CRP and Rheumatoid Factor (although that does not need to be present for all inflammatory conditions) at the very least.

Before he chips in with 'Arthritis! Told You!', because they are inflammatory, they have different treatments and can end up in full remission very quickly. If he sees a Rheumatologist for assessment/treatment. Which the GP would need to refer him for.

Tell him to stop being a right knob about it and go to the GP with the information - and ask specifically about it - and you can stop being a silly knob about cancer when it's far more likely he's got something that's a right bastard, but isn't likely to cause him to expire in the next day or so.

But, by the way, being able to get referrals for chiro and physio isn't as much of a fob off as the usual answer women get with those symptoms - have you considered losing weight, dear? and have you considered that it could be your age/feeling a bit down that makes you think you have pain, dear? So they aren't as crap as some GPs.

Get on it. Action is better than inert worrying and fatalism. Treatment can revolutionise a patient's life if it's RA/PsA/AS/etc.

(More in case you think I'm being mean - I'm not)

He already has psoriasis, I didn't mention it as I didn't think it relevant.
He gets it very mildly on his hands and feet, betnovate cream sorts it out.

Asfaik, no one in his family has arthritis, sudden heart disease, deformed hands or sudden pain.
Most (not DH) are heavy smokers/drinkers so lots of conditions related to that.

Yes he had that blood test.
I remember the doctor saying about rheumatoid factor.
I can't remember if it included the other two.
It came back clear.

Psoriatic Arthritis is a likely thing for a rheumatologist to consider, then.

Diagnosis and treatment is lightyears ahead now than 15 years ago. And PsA is usually negative for RF, but not to mention that inflammatory markers are often dismissed as 'must have a bit of a cold coming '.

Sorry for the late reply. Very painful evening so ended up with 5ml x oramorph, 1 x diazepam, 2 x ibruprofen. Finally fell asleep (on and off) on the sofa.

Mine is a feeling of something catching in my lower back. As I step off the pavement I get a shooting pain up my back and down my legs. I also spasm when in certain positions.

I'll be a bit different to your husband as mine got worse with pregnancy and for a long time it was put down to this. As my son got older I was told it was anxiety!

I cannot sleep and I seem to only get comfy sitting upright with my legs on the coffee table (my knees now turn funny). I do this for a couple of hours and then try bed for a bit.

I've got severe nerve pain which is probably my worst pain. It causes my hamstrings and calf muscles to go rigid in pain and when its particularly bad like last night, I cant sit, stand or lie down and just cry in pain.

It's hard to get going in the morning and then is ok-ish during the day. Evenings I'm exhausted from a day of work, housework, looking after my son and no sleep from the previous night so I tend to really suffer then. Cold weather also makes it worse.

When I was finally allowed an MRI, I thought they'd say arthritis too (I'm only 37) but it's actually a massive tumor filling the spinal cord so it compresses nerves and blood vessels (hence the severe nerve pain).

Keep asking for an MRI and consider changing doctors. I asked every time I went and I went a lot. Always told no and even after my complaint letter to the surgery, they told me that pain that presents for a long time doesn't usually need an MRI. Obviously this is incorrect.

My consultant was quite surprised I've been left for so long and seeing the images can see I'd be in a lot of pain. As you can tell I'm very angry and bitter as I've missed out on a lot with my son, been a burden on everyone and struggled to do everything.

Operation is early next month though so on the road to recovery (finally).

There were paragraphs when I wrote that.

Sounds like arthritis to me.

He should go to the GP though, there are loads more anti inflammatory and pain killing drugs, and there disease modifiers.

His life could really be improved by the correct meds and physio.

He already has psoriasis, I didn't mention it as I didn't think it relevant.

Nope it is VERY relevant. I was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis at 26. In my case I tend to have either really bad skin and less pain, or really bad joints and clear (ish)skin.

I now also have osteoarthritis as well.

When I fractured a vertebrae I had to insist on a referral to a neurologist. I think my words were along the lines of "I work fulltime and if there's a 10 week waiting list it is absurd to wait for 10 weeks to see if I'm still in pain then - by then I may have list my job and the NHS will lose far more in tax than the cost of an appointment.

In fact the apt came through within a week and I saw a marvellous woman. The vertebrae had in fact collapsed by more than half. If quickly done a minimally invasive procedure called kyphoplasty is available for severe pain and to alleviate future problems. It was a serious option as I was only 55 and have osteoporosis.

The MRI identified that the back of the vertebrae was tipping into the spinal canal but not touching the cord. Therefore kyphoplasty would have required the bone to be pinned straight and not an option in the circs.

The MRI also indicated two bulging disks lower down (many years of back pain) and an otherwise healthy spine clear from anything else of concern.

I recovered extremely well (with the help of physio based pilates - privately - probably spent about 800). I think that recovery was aided by knowing exactly what the structural issues were.

Not providing MRIs because of a not particularly counter productive cost is in my opinion counter productive. The NHS needs to do more to keep people in work than to write sick notes. The savings are shortsighted when compared to list revenues.

I had 9 days off work and made a full recovery.

UPDATE

He is getting the MRI!

The doctor asked lots of questions, pressed the painful area, made him lie down and lift his legs which he couldn't do without great pain.

She was shocked he hadn't been offered an MRI or x ray or anything.

She thinks she knows what the problem is but says she wants to see the MRI result first.

Unfortunately my anxiety means I have pretty much convinced myself that she thinks it is something really serious.

Oh, and after the MRI she wants to do a hip x ray too.

DH is ecstatic after years of not really getting anywhere.

I am pleased he's getting diagnostic tests but making myself nervous again.

She asked him which one he wanted first.

The back MRI or the hip x ray.

She wouldn't do that if she thought it was something like a tumour would she?

If she thought it was a tumour she would have referred for the MRI first straightaway right?

Try to keep calm. Hes on the road to getting fixed and whatever it is, will be fixed.

I'm in a weird way looking forward to my operation. I just want the bloody thing out and to be painfree and living my life again! It has been a huge shock but also validation that my pain wasn't in my head.

Honestly, I cant imagine the surgery pain will be any worse that what I've been suffering and I'll get lots of drugs to see me through too.

You'll hear back relatively quickly from the mri (I think I heard a week later), then a referral to fix whatever is the cause of the issue will be made. I think psychologically it helps just knowing what it is - good luck and I'm happy hes got the mri.

Nothing in what you describe makes it sound any more serious than simply needing to be diagnosed and treated.

It's gone on long enough for it to be given a quite high priority and MRIs/x-rays are usually pretty quick because they work constantly every day (no 'it's only open on the third Thursday of the month between 9 and 12' stuff for them). Evening and weekend appointments are also perfectly normal, as they want to get the most out of a) having a fucking expensive piece of kit sitting there b) highly trained staff that are in the department anyway because they provide cover 24/7 for A&E, so might as well take routine referrals whilst they're at it.

Good on the pair of you for making the appointment.

Feel positive that it's being taken seriously and something is being done - don't assume that it's only being done because he's about to expire.