Aibu to ask the collective wisdom of MN to help me understand & accept?

[Tryingtrying]

Hi,
My baby was delivered by planned csection 6 weeks ago, 21 days before her due date, due to breach position and other factors measuring low growth. The csection went fine, all ok, skin-to-skin immediately, she breastfed twice that day well. However, she was low birthweight and needed sugar level pinprick blood tests from her heel every 3hrs for the first few days.
Then it all went very, very downhill.
She lost over 10% of her weight, wasn't latching at all. Would rarely latch then pull off, screaming with hunger. rarely she would feed at the breast for some minutes, then scream with hunger again. My nipples became cracked and bleeding. I had hours of pain, daily one to one help with latching, different breastfeeding positions, troubleshooting.
We collected Colostrum with midwife help with a syringe and fed her with that; eventually after 3 days the baby was needing 25ml per 3hrs of food... I was expressing 3-5ml by hand and the hospital double pump. It wasn't enough.
We moved to supplementing with formula due to her starving and left hospital a week later using a nipple shield. My milk moved from golden colostrum to whiter... But volumes didn't increase. At all.
I've tried lots of skin to skin, eventually ditched the nipple shield, supplementing with goats rue, brewer yeast, and fenugreek from week 2. My Dr prescribed domperidone for weeks 2 and 3. I eat porridge oats for breakfast; my husband makes batches of flapjack for us daily. For 2 weeks I did a "reset" - doing nothing but breastfeeding and pumping, to the point I was doing zero care for her.. just feeding her (too little) and on the pump so many times every day.
All have had zero effect on milk volume.
6 weeks later I still get about 3ml from left breast pumping, about 10ml from the right.
My baby is still mostly on formula, which is heartbreaking.
My Dr has checked my thyroid levels exactly at week 6 on Monday, all ok (rang today to give results). He requested checking the prolactin level, "relatively high". No known hormone issues, family history no known issues, female family members exclusively breastfeeding children well. Fit and healthy before, during and after pregnancy, not taking ANY medication. No contraception interfering here (not on any).
One thing I've noticed is it takes a LONG time for milk to appear when pumping - over 5 mins on right breast, over 20 on the left!
Breast compression and hot flannels help a tiny amount. My breasts don't get hard, or feel full or uncomfortable if I skip multiple feeds. Relaxing, looking at pics of baby or her being next to me have no effect.
I'm ready to accept I cannot breastfeed my baby much after 6 weeks of aggressive trying, to my and our detriment, it's harmed my bonding properly.
Short of a miracle suggestion on here, can anyone comment or advise, with all the breastfeeding knowledge this group has? My Dr and midwives and specialists just now tell me to accept some is better than none, and "it may have been because she was early, or the csection"... but I'm utterly at a loss because I can't understand.. I wasn't expecting that some women cannot breastfeed.. just that if I keep troubleshooting then surely some fix can be found!!

Well done OP for trying as hard as you have. You’ve tried so hard to put your baby first, but now (if you feel the same) it’s time to take a step back and think of your own health. Torturing yourself can’t be doing you any good mentally.

Remember a fed baby is best. Whether this is breast or bottle.

There is so much pressure on women to breastfeed that sometimes you can feel wayyyy too guilty to even think about formula.

As long as your baby is healthy and thriving, in the long run does it really matter whether it’s formula or breast?

(No I am not anti BF, I BF both of mine. I just think as I’ve said a fed baby regardless of how it’s the important thing. And if I couldn’t have BF, then it would have formula fed, I bought starter kits for the hospital both times)

Hope you are feeling happier after seeing all the comments OP

My baby is still mostly on formula, which is heartbreaking.

Your baby is having her needs met and is doing fine. That isn't heartbreaking by anyone's standards!

Look at the actual research rather than parroted "facts" from Mumsnet and blogs. The benefits of breastfeeding are small and it really isn't worth all this upset. Just try to enjoy being a mother without all this unnecessary guilt.

Oh I feel for you. It’s hard to describe to people the horrible mix of guilt and grief when breastfeeding doesn’t work out. My first was a nightmare, no support, no one listened when I reached out, she had reflux and now I realise a hidden tongue tie. My breasts are small and didn’t grow in pregnancy, I never got leaky boobs beforehand. When she was born my milk took far too long to come in and she was starving, we should have been back in hospital, it makes me so angry the lack of care I received.

My breasts never grew much, still and a cup all through breastfeeding, could never express, and went to mix feeding and then solely formula and I cried the first time I realised she had some baby chub on her.

I honestly think it’s like my body needed a trial run to figure things out (tho some of it was stress and pnd ) as second pregnancy my breasts did everything expected and I ebf for 15 months (not by choice the irony!) but still have never been able to express

I know how hard and unfair it feels but for the sake of both of you it’s ok to stop, this is such a short time in your lives and you will get through it x

Sorry if I’m repeating information but I had a very similar experience to you OP.

My twins were born extremely prematurely and very low birth weight too, too small to even breast feed at first. So I hooked myself up to the pumps and did everything I could to get what I could for them. I managed about four weeks before my supply ran dry. Thankfully, the hospital my twins had been transferred to had a donor milk facility which supplemented what I felt were my pathetic contributions. Like you I did as much skin to skin as possible, pumped whilst holding them, had something of there’s to smell when I couldn’t hold them and pump, tried the supplements and any other suggestions the midwives and nurses had in the NICU. Nothing worked, I did as much as I could and I felt like such a massive failure.

I felt that being in NICU with two babies in incubators (who I could only hold for short periods due to how tiny they were neither weighed above 900g) and then failing to provide as much breast milk as I’d hoped for did affect my bonding with them and it broke my heart. Not that I didn’t feel bonded to them, but that they might not have felt bonded with me. Especially as they were being fed by nasal tubes for at least six weeks.

It took a long time for me to accept I hadn’t failed, but given the circumstances of their birth I was lucky I could provide any milk at all. I gave it my all just as you have OP. They are now healthy and happy 20 month old toddlers who run me ragged and the love between us is clear. I know it’s horrible to go through OP, but keep your chin up, you’ve done everything you can and your DD has benefited from the massive amount of effort you have put in.

Well done for giving it your all, you aren’t a failure and your DD is lucky to have a Mum who has tried so hard to give all she can and will continue to do so. Please don’t beat yourself up, it is okay to stop because your health is important too OP.

I identify with this with my first child. For your peace of mind, my second child I bf until 16 months with no issue.
If you want to keep trying then try to up your fenugreek intake, your skin and sweat should smell of the stuff, I was taking obscene amounts
Also try guiness it helped a bit too. Finally make sure you are eating plenty of fatty foods.
The other thing to consider is that bf isn't the only option, consider combination or just going over to bottles. It's ok. Your baby needs you. You need you. You have given your baby your liquid gold.
Bottle feeding didn't do my first born DD any harm. She is healthy, happy and intelligent. Look after yourself. Please x

Sympathies OP, I just couldn't make anywhere near enough milk either.

As bad as I felt for giving up, the difference once DS was on formula was huge and I could relax and enjoy my baby.

I really hope you can find the right path for you

OP, I can relate to so much of what you have posted. I had to start formula supplements with DC1 at 5 days old because of weight loss. I have something called hypoplasia/insufficient glandular tissue. Basically too few milk ducts. I was lucky that a specialist feeding midwife knew about it, all the other midwives, health visitors etc just told me to try harder or give up. I produced very little milk irrespective of pumping, skin to skin, more feeds etc. I took oats and fenugreek and beat myself up about it for months. Contrary to what NCT and a lot of MN will tell you, some women really can't breastfeed and yes it's heartbreaking. I mix fed DC1 for 14 months but in reality they were on about 90% formula. It gets much easier, especially when they start solids and feeding becomes just one small part of motherhood. Hang in there

Same here - slightly early baby, breast not producing milk despite best efforts and a baby who just didn’t get the hang of it. I was so so upset for months. Quite a few years on I just think I could have been much kinder to myself and relaxed into motherhood a lot more. he’s absolutely fine of course!

Some people just can’t, and that will have contributed to high infant mortality rates in years gone by.
Stop torturing yourself now and enjoy your baby.
You’ve done as much as you can, and way more than most of ever would.
Be grateful we live on the modern age and have decent alternatives x

I had supply issues with my first, who ended up on formula. For my second, I ate oats, drank loads of diluted squash (don't like water on it's own) - and pigged out on full fat everything, yogurts, cheesecakes, full fat milk, pretty much anything good fats. And it fixed my problem. My milk didn't contain enough fat unless I did this.

I don't know if your situation is the same, because everyone told me this shouldn't have made a difference, but I know that for me it did. I also had to take calcium / magnesium supplements (I didn't try fenugreek or domperidone because those worked for me).

Might be worth trying these if you haven't already if you want to give it one last bash. But if it isn't meant to be don't beat yourself up, instead just be thankful that formula exists. :)

You have done an amazing job at giving your baby the best start but really do think about going to formula - I think bonding with your baby is more important at this stage.

I say this as someone who is very pro breastfeeding. Congratulations and please try and enjoy these few months, you'll look back and wished you had rather than stress yourself out!

There's someone called Prof Amy Brown who's an expert on breastfeeding and one of the things she complains about is how little medical research is done into problems with breastfeeding and how best to support women who want to breastfeed. There is so much more money for A) men's issues such as erectile disfunction and B) pro-formula research which the formula companies pay for. Breastfeeding can't be monetised and is just a women's issue 🤷‍♀️

I'm glad you and you baby are both OK op

I couldn’t breastfeed either of mine really.

Ds came first and although I did feed him for 6 months, using a pump as well, I also had to give him formula with each feed as my supply never increased.

Dd was only breast fed whilst in hospital for the first days or so, my supply didn’t come in so she was latched on almost 12 hours straight! Eventually the dr said she needed formula or she would be in scbu so that was that.

Both were c sections but I haven’t had any trouble bonding with either of them. Not everybody can breast feed and we all simply to our best by our babies.

Ok these are my thoughts:

-some women cannot express much or at all so not producing much via the pump may or may not be significant....similarly I was the only one of the BFing mothers in my group to suffer with engorgement and feel the let down so again that isn’t always a sign

-Are you now thinking you’ve not got any or enough milk or is the problem with the baby extracting the milk? Obv the reason they can’t latch initially is because they are too tired (jaundice/low sugar) but that is not the case now because she’s had formula so she should be alert and able to “get it”

-You’re talking about pumping but what happens when you put the baby to the breast? You said she was happily bfing away just now. So at this stage if she was just on the boob all day no expressing, no formula, what would happen? Is there actually no milk?

-Formula is a vicious cycle. If she is having formula then she won’t be as hungry for the boob and if her lips aren’t on the nipple as much she’s not putting her order in and then your body may think you don’t need as much milk. All the time her mouth is on the bottle it’s not on the breast, encouraging your supply

-Spending 5-6hrs pumping is a lot of time when the baby is not on the breast (I found it grim as well) and at that age she should be on it pretty much all the time.

I had an almost identical start to you-baby born early, instrumental delivery, jaundice, unable to latch, syringes etc. Absolute hell.
We were very lucky as we were admitted to special care and stayed in for some time. They send people home too early IMO

We did crack it eventually, mainly thanks to the hospital.

However when I got home I lost confidence in my body and even tho we were discharged exclusively breastfeeding I kept wanting to supplement with formula and EBM when, looking back, I didn’t need to. I didn’t feel secure that my milk was enough and we timed feeds and topped up for ages afterwards, unnecessarily.

I know people will tell you it doesn’t matter -“fed is best” but it’s ok to feel that it actually does matter and to be upset. I was told this too and found it flippant altho well meant. However formula was designed for these situations and your baby is so lucky to have a mum who has been so tenacious. You must be a very determined person indeed!

Op & @Thingsthatgo, I beat myself up like this with my first... it wasn’t until I had my second (and third - DT’s) and I was trying to bf again, when a midwife came in and saw me crying. She asked me lots of questions about my lack of breast growth in pregnancy and said that my boobs looked to be the wrong shape for someone 5 days post-birthing one baby, let alone two. She organized an ultrasound of my boobs and I saw for myself that I don’t have the full number of milk ducts at all. Only 2 or three on each side. Very common in women who had mums who smoked heavily during THEIR pregnancies aparrently. Nobody tells us this. Of course I was terribly sad to find this out, but at least I knew!

My DD finally latched at 11 weeks. I expressed until then. Was hard going at times, but I was weirdly determined so didn't seem so bad overall.