Nursery visits to care home

[TheCatInAHat]

Name changed as details are outing.

Our DS (12 weeks) was recently treated for sepsis at hospital. Since his discharge 2 weeks ago I’ve been pretty worried about him catching another bug.

Our DD (3) goes to preschool a few days a week. She picks up the usual minor little coughs, colds, temperatures etc but is rarely really ill.

A few months ago the nursery started taking small groups of children to meet residents at a local care home. The kids seem to really enjoy the visits, as do the residents by all accounts.

As both the nursery and care home environments are typically full of infectious illness I wondered if it’s a risk we could do without just now. I wondered if care home bugs in particular might be the nastier, antibiotic resistant strains.

But I’m aware my risk assessment process is faulty and I’m being over cautious about everything at the moment. AIBU to ask nursery not to include DD on the trips until DS is bigger and stronger?

In your personal circumstances, Op, I'd ask for your DD to skip these visits. I tend to agree that in general these visits are beneficial to the oldies and the children, but given that you have a baby who has very recently had a serious illness I'd opt out. You can't avoid germs altogether if you live a normal life, but avoiding higher risks seems sensible at present.

Theoretically, yes, care staff should be 100% on top of infection control and environmental hygiene. In my experience, however, lot of care staff (community and hospital) are blissfully untroubled by germ theory.

I think your risk assessment is fine, I would take her out of the visits.

Unless there are mega-medical reasons for not doing so, all the residents at the dementia care home in which my mother lives get the annual flu jab. Plus if there are any infectious diseases, tummy bugs, the whole place goes into lockdown - no visitors allowed in!
Some of the residents are so fragile, like little birds, so the home is very careful.

@Lilyannarose I am so sorry to hear that's happened to you, and no duty if care was shown to you by your employer

I agree OP you are not being unreasonable at all. I always go with with my instinct, and if you feel it would be better then I would request she be withdrawn from the visits for a little while.Yes care homes do seem to have a high level of illness, just by the nature of the people they care for.

How close is the contact between the two groups?

If the nursery group are for example going there to sing and are not in close contact then I would be happy as long as hand washing/alcohol gel was used appropriately.

If they are close enough for droplet infection it would be a no from me. For the protection of both groups.

I think people are mixing up different facilities when they talk about people in care homes only recently come out of hospital.
There are places where people come in for short term care. But there are also places where people live long term. My gran was in the latter. We took young kids to visit regularly. My gran rarely had a cold, far less than when she was living at home.

I honestly think the residents are more at risk than the children, I have changed jobs this year from working with pre-schoolers to a role where I am frequently in contact with the elderly and I have not had such a long period without a cold in years. The homes I visit are scrupulous about hygiene and have told me not to go in if I have a cold.

I thought you were going to say you were worried about the elderly residents catching bugs from your kids.

The reverse is a lot less likely. YAB (slightly) U though I understand your anxiety after your little one being ill.

We are visiting care homes for an elderly relative. Several of them have had to reschedule visits due to lock downs because of illness. eg Noro, chest infections and flu.

I would not let my toddler visit in your circumstances

I'd be more worried about what bugs/infections that the kids are introducing to the care home tbh.

Wouldn't there also be a risk that the other children catch a bug and pass it on to your DD?

Could you take your DD out of nursery for a couple of weeks? Whilst your DS gets stronger?

I think there are more illnesses at care homes in general but this is as much due to the very elderly having weaker immune systems and all being in one place, than horrible strains of things and lack of hygiene. I'd think it would be less germy than a room full of toddlers at nursery all snotting all over each other!

I would ask for some reassurance that if there was an outbreak of something that the visits would be cancelled

However I'd think your eldest child would be unlikely to pick anything up as shes young and healthy. And there are other social benefits to going. Also if there is an outbreak of sickness bugs or something that kids were exposed to, then the other kids would get it and pass it on anyway

I agree with melon slice that the children are more likely to bring illness into a care home to frail elderly with often weakened immune systems. That said the benefits of the two age groups mixing far outweigh any theoretical risk of infection. Care workers are with their charges whether young or old for long periods and in both cases provide personal care so infections can spread. This is less likely on short social visits. Keeping children in ebola style bubbles increases incidence of allergies etc as their immune systems do not become trained to recognise infection.

I would stop sending your DD to nursery too while your DS recovers from sepsis. She and the other kids are the infection risk; not the elderly care residents.

Care homes also go into lockdown the second there is a sickness or flu bug going round. At least my mother's does.
Nurseries don't. So I'd definitely pull the child from nursery for a while.
My mother has been as fit as a fiddle since moving in. Dd when at nursery however....

Do what you feel is best, you won't stop worrying about it otherwise. Once you have asked to exclude him from the visits it will be like a weight has been lifted from your shoulders. So what if you are being over cautious, they will understand your concerns.

I think it would be wise to stop the visits. I'm sure the nursery wouldn't mind BUT what about all the vomiting and diarrhoea bugs dd will pick up at nursery and bring home to the baby? So you plan on taking her out of nursery too?

Tell DD not to lick any of the oldies.

As an aside, are you taking her out of nursery too? Those toddlers will be full of pestilence.

I'm not surprised you're anxious about your son's health. Sepsis is frightening for everyone, let alone at that age. Here's to his continued recovery

Thanks everyone. We’ve asked nursery not to take her for now and we’ll reevaluate in a few months time.

We won’t take DD out of nursery- she loves it and needs the continuity with having to go through the huge adjustment of having a sibling. The doctors said we didn’t need to take any additional precautions with DS as far as who he has contact with (I specifically asked about DD and nursery) but I felt the care home visits added an extra dynamic of risk and anxiety I could do without, and not at a huge cost to my DD.

This is your decision and personally I understand your concerns, with your history. It's not worth the stress this causes you so opt out.

There seems to be a bit of scaremongering on this thread though . To clear a few things up:

I work in a care home and all residents receive the annual flu jab, I don't think any of our residents have had flu for a good few years. Some get coughs and colds, usually picked up from visitors, and the only risk is to them, in that they aren't strong enough to fight them and this can then lead to chest infections. Their coughs and colds viruses are no more potent than any other in the community.

Niro virus goes around 99% of homes (and no doubt schools, nurseries etc) every winter. We were lucky this year as we didn't get it until late in the season (April) and it was quite mild in comparison to years passed. The house goes into lockdown, every surface is thoroughly cleaned, every piece of equipment sanitised, residents are cared for in their own room.

MRSA - you are only likely to get this if you are in hospital and even then from an open wound. Also, residents who do have it (if any) are Barrier Nursed (disposable gloves, aprons, all rubbish put in specifically marked bin bags) and wouldn't be allowed in any contact with children. MRSA doesn't spread through care homes, it's very unlikely to find an outbreak in the community - it is hospital based and preys on already sick people.

MRSA is carried by 1 in 30 of the population. Healthy people (including pregnant women and children) are not at risk. (taken from NHS website)

As for "parasitic"! Dear me. Probably the same percentage as in the wider community. We have 40+ residents, I can't think of one with anything remotely parasitic. I've worked there 6 years and I'm still drawing a blank.

Care homes are no more risky than working in schools or nurseries. Probably less so because we don't get headline or worms.