That HR are useless in whatever setting they’re in?

[MiffyMiffed]

Bear in mind, that people don’t usually have to deal with HR as a new starter all that often, unless they’re serial job jumpers.

I started a new job for NHS 4 years ago and it took HR 6 weeks to process my paperwork. I had to actually ring them up and tell them I was starting on so and so date so send the paperwork to my new manager ASAP. They managed to do it in 5 mins after the phone call. 🙄.

Now I’ve got a new job, different setting, in a university. Again, absolutely useless. I’ve been emailed forms to fill out and send back. I emailed on the first day to confirm whether they wanted them back by email. No reply. So filled out forms online and sent them back. 3 weeks later I’m being told to post them. Then I’m told to scan a picture and send it. Next day I’m told everything has to be by hand. Tomorrow I’ll be told something else.

I’M SO FRUSTRATED.

Why is the production of detailed policies after negotiation and taking into account legal cases evidence of shit HR? Such stupid angry people on here! Of course policies and handbooks set the benchmark for employment. It’s what is agreed and what should be the precise position. As many of these anecdotes show, deviating from good practice is where the shit lies!

Why on earth would you need help with shortlisting?

Where I work an HR member of staff is always on the shortlisting panel. I thought that was standard practice, is it not? HR have to make sure that the proper criteria are being applied as stated in the job advertisement. And in theory prevent people from only interviewing their mates, although applications are anonymised where I work as a further preventative measure.

My job has many elements in common with HR in that we provide a service to internal customers.
I make sure that we deal with enquiries and problems in a timely and competent way.
I ensure we are compliant with external obligations on multi million pound contracts.
I provide strategic advice to senior management. Apparently this is "business partnering" (puke)
I do a lot of training across the organisation and get excellent feedback.
I do all recruitment and induction for new staff, no help from HR except failing to issue contracts in a timely fashion.
As well as that I generate revenue.
I don't get complaints about my team. But most people in my organisation think HR are shit. Maybe they are?

Bubblesbuddy do you think that having policies and procedures written down is enough to ensure staff comply with them?

No. That’s where my point about training and making sure managers know what to refer to is important. It’s far better for managers to be in control with guidance than HR having to hand hold. It is empowering for managers to understand the policies and deal with their own staff fairly and equitably. Obviously they need advice but some of the issues raised here are rather basic.

So how do you know your recruitment is compliant with the law and company policy, Chiara? You know because these have been written for you. I assume you don’t just do what you want! Or maybe you do as you seem to be perfect in every way. I’m amazed you are not senior management. What’s gone wrong?

HR has been centralised at my work, they now write job descriptions (not seen a correct one yet), pick candidates for interviews (based on their wrong job description), pick the interview time (without checking with the interviewers if it's suitable). Then if someone accepts the job, will only send them their contract through our in house system, but won't set them up on that system until they've signed their contract.
I was made redundant in my first role but successfully applied for another role. 7 years later HR sent me an email saying as I'd left the company I would be removed from the system.
They have given payroll the wrong information, mixing up two staff members meaning each was paid in the wrong currency.
But they're all about inclusion and well being of staff....

Would it not be fair to say that generally where a business is well run, then HR are efficient and professional, like the other departments?

The places I've worked who have had terrible HR functions have been badly run full stop. The places with good HR have been well run in general.

@trinitybleu
No it was HR's fault - they didn't tell payroll about the change to my contract and even so payroll sits within our HR.
Yes I would expect some level of shortlisting when they put it on Indeed and get over 300 applicants to wade through on a system that you have to click into each one manually and reject/approve, ironic when you are recruiting for admin support because you can't get on with your actual job as a fee earner. We are a big organisation yes but we were only interviewing 3 people and they invited 2 of them at the same time. So yes basically I think our HR are pretty shit.

@isabellerossignol that's a really good point. I've worked in HR in huge public sector organisations, in academic institutions, and in a tech start up that has expanded so now employs hundreds. You probably won't be surprised to hear it's the latter that functions most efficiently - and not only because I had the chance to set everything up myself! It's also because it's a pretty lean function - me and one part-time assistant, covering recruitment, payroll, legal, training, coaching, employee benefits, and strategic planning, to 200+ employees globally.

I learned a lot in the other organisations though - in the NHS I met really dedicated committed talented HR managers who made a genuine difference helping fragmented teams to reunite, hiring into long term vacancies and rejuvenating exhausted teams, and making the case to the board where greater investment in extra staff or skills was needed. I also met some people who did the bare minimum, and who were apparently unable to maintain an alphabetical filing system... In academia I learned a lot about conflict resolution because a huge part of the role was mediation between warring academics And by the time I joined the start up, I was able to lead and advise others on just about every aspect of HR, and to know my limitations (when to consult a solicitor).

There will always be people passionate and committed to doing a great job, in whatever role, and there will always be people who don't really care that much. If it makes some people feel superior to take a potshot at HR now and again, I can take it.

(I do not believe that it is acceptable to leave new starters without clear info about joining dates/arrangements; that's really poor practice. In your shoes I would be ringing the company switchboard and asking for the manager who interviewed you though - partly because it makes sense, and partly because if HR genuinely aren't doing their job, it's reasonable to flag that.)

Jasging, you need either better job specs that don't result in you getting 297 useless applicants and/or a system that helps you shortlist based on some killer questions i.e. Do you have experience of x? No = automatic rejection.

But no, I won't spend hours doing your shortlisting for you. I'll train you on how to do it and then trust you to do it properly, because you're a manager and it's part of your job.

I didn't mean how many people were you interviewing, but how many across the business. If you're scheduling 15 or 20 sets of interviews simultaneously, then mistakes are more likely. Even better, you enter your availability into the system mentioned above and your candidates go online and pick a time to suit them.

Be aware though, with all of this your candidates may get the impression that it's like working for robots, rather than the personal touch and human contact.

@flatheadscrewdriver are you me? Also worked in academia, conflict resolution skills maxed, plus how to make my case against people who are trained to question and argue everything! Then a tech start up, 35 people when I started as a stand alone and grew to 200 people in 3 years, all over the world, looked after by just me and a pt assistant! Current employer is now 150 staff (125ish when I joined) and there's 5 of us! Means we all have time to do our aspects of the role properly, which is fab. Anyway, hello.

If you generalise about a whole profession based on the actions of a few maybe you need to look in the mirror and see how stupid and judgemental you look?
Bet these judgemental idiots are also racist as well. After all, if they can confidently claim ALL HR professionals 'are shit' they probably have the same thought processes about other groups of people e.g. Muslims, BAME people etc.

@BubblesBuddy you would have failed an interview with me. if you are in charge of HR at your organisation you are going to get sacked or the organisation will be sure sooner or later.
Clue:writing policies and procedures and putting them in a drawer is not enough to ensure compliance.

I work in the NHS - fortunately I've had very little to do with HR apart from an issue I had whereby I'd not been paid when returning from a 'career break'.

I work amongst a specialist team involved with patients who are diagnosed with an horrendous disease and who should expect the uppermost of care.

What my team have had to endure - I really would like an HR manager or (to pass the buck because the HR manager blames the General Manager who wasn't aware of the severity of our grievances and the manager blames HR - go figure

What I 'd REALLY expect is any HR representative to hold a basic qualification in English/grammar? Embarrassing isn't the work the 'official' documents I've witnessed

If 90% of people on 10 pages think you’re shit.
Then I guess you’re shit.

@flashbac
I don’t think you understand what racist means. Which worries me if you work in HR

I think this thread needs to be taken down as it’s just bringing out the nastiest comments. No one has been brave enough though to answer me when I’ve asked what job you do. If you’re all so perfect in your own jobs then why not share so maybe we can learn what a ‘real’ job is? Maybe you have some tips for not being so shit so we can all be as valuable as you?

(I’m well aware I’ll probably now get self righteous people telling me they are saintly nurses etc. But I am more meaning other office based people!)

HR at my workplace is generally decent and actually helpful when you get to the higher up managers.

My supposed HR rep responsible for looking after mzy day to day HR needs is lovely. But I also outrank her by five grades and she knows this and behaves accordingly. I'd actually like a clear "no, you can't do that because it breaches policy" from her rather than an "umm, erm, yeah, I'll see what can be done and will get back to you". But she wouldn't dare - not so much because I'm scary but because some of my peers get ridiculously huffy about their position.

It's got to be a shit job trying to keep people in line when you get paid a third of their salary at the very most and and they get arsey when you pull them up on it.

@takenforslanted - just to clarify, not everyone in HR is low paid admin! But agree with what you say about it being hard to keep people in line if you have obnoxious senior managers who think they always know best (regardless of how senior you are yourself!)

I work in finance, and whilst I have been critical of HR on the thread, I've also been supportive. Because I've experienced both ends of the spectrum. And people hate finance too. How many times do you hear us described as uptight bean counters because we dare to say 'no, you can't spend that much money on whatever, it's not viable' , or we ask for a proper business case to be submitted rather than a vague 'I'd like to buy X'. And then we're jobsworths for not allowing people to claim x, y and z on expenses even though it would quite clearly be in breach of HMRC guidelines and would start being a benefit in kind...

"I think this thread needs to be taken down as it’s just bringing out the nastiest comments. No one has been brave enough though to answer me when I’ve asked what job you do. If you’re all so perfect in your own jobs then why not share so maybe we can learn what a ‘real’ job is? Maybe you have some tips for not being so shit so we can all be as valuable as you? smile"

Well, I am a finance director, in a manufacturing company. No saintly 'public sector' points for me.

I broadly agree with this thread's theme. I am generally 'anti' the expansion of HR over the years - Never found an HR person who could do basic maths like calculate pay - so have never asked them to.

All this 'values' stuff is just management school bollocks that doesn't enable the company to sell any more widgets. I know, I have done similar courses.

In fairness I started another thread to see what people think of finance.

There is nothing 'personal' about this thread, it is a criticism of the point of the existence of the entire function.

No need to get the thread taken down - we are all grown ups here, surely.

Never found an HR person who could do basic maths like calculate pay - so have never asked them to.

I have 2 A levels in Maths, an HNC in Finance and have studied financial and management accounting with the OU. I have a business as well as my day job and do my own accounts, VAT returns, P11ds etc. Calculating pay isn’t an issue for me.

Haven't read the wft, but just to say..... In NHS HR depts have been hit hard by savings targets etc. They are viewed as admin, so have been cut to the bare minimum. At a time of huge changes here they are under a lot of pressure and the is no spare capacity at all. Yes they are slow, bit that's not the individuals fault, it's the system they work in

Why would HR be calculating pay? I would have thought companies big enough to justify a hr department would have a payroll clerk?