Aibu to not want to pay the full amount?

[gingerginger2]

We had a quote for some work in our garden, which was £1300. we agreed to it, mainly through inexperience I think.

The Gardner’s came to do the work today and it took 3 of them 4 hours.

Given that materials could be bought for £300, aibu to not want to pay them £300 each for a half day?

I‘ve questioned the invoice and they said they estimated it would take a day, and they only quite by days.

We did agree to the quote. But it feels like a total rip off.

The work they did is ok. Sufficient. No above and beyond, just sufficient.

So what incentive is there to quote accurately.

If I told a client that a job would take me a certain amount of time and it actually took half, I would let them know and offer to do something else I could see needed doing in the time left. Or invoice for less. I have done that!

Just like if I can tell something is taking far longer than I expected , then i’ll Make sure the client knows and agrees to the costs rising.

As I said, i’ve Had the opposite happen when having bathroom and kitchen done and ended up paying more than quote. Which was annoying, but I could see that the job had taken more time at no fault of any bodies, so fair enough.

If you want a fight, then you aren’t going to get one! I have listened, am grateful for opinions and have thanked the majority for the schooling. But i’m Still entitled to be amazed as it’s not the way I operate and doesn’t Tally with previous experience of hiring tradesmen.

And I said haste tax, (not hassle tax). As recognition of the idea thst someone posted that in needing it done quickly I haven’t had the best experience and have had to pay more. These Gardner’s weren’t the cheapest quote. But they could do it in the timeframe we needed. So in a way, supply and demand forces the price up.

if a window cleaner told me it’d take a hour to do my windows and it only took half an hour, i’d Think that they were either innacurate or dishonest in their quote.

Maybe the problem here is that I am not sure if the difference between a quote and an estimate. To my mind they are the same thing! But this thread tells me that they are commonly thought of as different.

So how does everyone define estimate? And define quote? As separate things? How practically do they function as separate things?

Is an estimate the ballpark type chats you have to begin with?
And a quote the more worked out costs that you put on paper?

Yes gingerginger2, think of it as an estimate is a guess and a quote is a fixed price
An estimate price can go up or down

So is the consensus then that

-the plumber who charged me a grand extra because the bathroom took longer than he though to install?

• the joiner that charged me double because the kitchen took longer than he thought to install?

Were being unreasonable?

Not if he gave you an estimate. If he gave you a quote then yes.

No as they gave you an estimate.
I give a price as a quote. If the job finishes earlier I don't give a refund.
Why? Because I cannot find additional work for that time.
Some days the time goes over, but I absorb that cost.
My cost includes - goods and all my overheads, as well as time, experience etc

I think you've been taken for a mug. I'd email and say you weren't happy on reflection with the cost or the work left such as the slabs and see what he says. If he offers to come round and move the slabs he's concerned about his customers. Otherwise I'd leave an honest Google review.

I had a similar situation when hiring a roofer for a small leak. The variance in prices quotes was a joke. I said to one so taking out the materials and over-guessing how long this job will take you're on over £100 an hour? After ten quotes I got a realistic one.

I usually do a quick bottom-up calculation before hiring someone. Cost of materials subtracted from total then work out the hourly rate. It's not accurate but I'm loathe to pay an hourly rate of £100s to anyone.

What were the reasons it took longer? If it was just down to their speed/labour then absolutely. You can’t get a client to the stage of no return then charge more because you underestimated your ability to complete the job in the stated time. If they took the existing kitchen / bathroom out and found additional remedial works were needed that couldn’t be seen before hand then this should be discussed and the way forward agreed.

For example if they took the bath out and discovered a leak and rotten floorboards and you want these sorted whilst they are there it’s additional work. If they planned to have three people there and took two, running over by a few weeks that’s on them.

This is why paying for the project not an hourly/daily rate works. You want x done, they do x, you have your new shiny kitchen - happy days. You pay them for x. It puts it on them to ensure they’ve quoted properly and get finished in a good time. You get 3 quotes and pay what your happy to pay to have x done.

Oh, they gave an estimate? I would only accept a broken down quote for that exact reason.

The £100 an hour will include their running costs, just like any other business.

These hourly rate calculations, are you including insurance, tools, travel, uniform, company profit, training, vehicles, vehicle insurance, admin, ordering etc?

Why would he offer to come and move the slabs. His job was to take them up to make flower beds. He didnt take them away because OP wants to use them in another part of her garden. He did his job, that OP asked him to. You cannot add on extras once you have agreed the work and price.

Then I think the problem is that i’m misunderstanding the difference between quote and estimate!

This is good reading
www.yourtradebase.com/blog/estimates-vs-quotes/

In my line of work they are essentially practically the same thing.

I’m going to look back and see whether the Gardner, plumber and joiner called their documents quotes or estimates.

This is all good learning!

Cheers.

Seriously annoys me when people think they’ve been ripped off when they ACCEPTED A QUOTE.

You may have only seen them for however many hours, OP, but how long did he take sourcing materials, travelling, working out your quote. Just because you don’t see something happening doesn’t mean it’s not.

He would have booked the whole day for your job, and wouldn’t have booked anyone else. You accepted the quote, he did the job as per the quote. Just pay it and do the guy a favour and don’t use his services again because it certainly isn’t him being unreasonable.

It does sound like you were charged a lot, but if you accepted the quote, I'm afraid, as PP have pointed out, you need to pay up.

You say that you went with these gardeners because they could do the job quickly. May I ask why installing raised beds was time pressured? Just being nosey

I've recently had artificial grass installed in my garden, transformed it into a useable pleasant place to be in. I really wanted it completed in March but after getting 6 quotes, I decided it wasn't worth picking the company that could do the work the quickest at the cheapest price, it's was about finding someone who I thought was competent, knowledgeable and I felt was going to do a good job. The difference between some of the companies quoting was huge - one guy turned up, had a cursory look around and didn't listen to what I had to say. His quote was reasonable but I didn't feel like he would do the work to my satisfaction.

We’ve paid him. He’s offered to come back and do the extras. Seems ok.

I don't think he knows the difference between quote and estimate either. It says estimate in his email subject line; the attachment has quote at the top of it; but it also has an estimate number underneath!

Needed it done quickly as it’s part of a chain of events that need doing by a certain date.

Estimate - rough workings
Quote - fixed price

Estimate - rough guide could go either way.

Quote - cost to complete project (unforeseen issues or spec changes may affect this) we hope to complete it in x amount of time but it could take slightly longer or slightly less.

Ask for a broken down quote showing how much each area of work will cost, if there are any extras you have a reference to refer back to, for example if it’s expected to take a certain amount of plastering then they remove the bath and half the wall comes off you have a starting point to look at the additional cost. It’s unfortunate that these things happen but until you start ripping out you can’t see everything.

Don’t get too hung up on time unless they’re sitting around drinking your tea, eating your bacon sandwiches and charging their phones when three weeks over schedule.

Also, many posters completely miss the costs of the company outside of the actual house, there’s a lot going on behind the scenes cost wise it’s not just hours on site.

The paving slabs, I imagine they would be hesitant to lay them elsewhere with no base extra. Personally I’d have popped out and asked them to move them whilst offering a cuppa if it wasn’t included in the quote, a cuppa goes a long way!

What!? Don’t be ridiculous. You agreed to the quote and they completed the work to a satisfactory standard. Annoying if they’ve overquoted time but that’s on you and your inexperience I’m afraid - and you don’t know the reasons why it took less time, it could be something like soil quality, and in any case they will have blocked out the whole day to do your job meaning they’re not earning in the afternoon anyway. And I’m freelance and surprised at another freelancer’s comment saying they would modify the quote... I call BS because if you’ve quoted a day for a job and it only takes half then you’re booked out so would lose money in the afternoon by changing the invoice! That isn’t how it works. You agreed a price for a job, now pay it.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.freshbooks.com/blog/estimate-quote-bid-proposal/amp

Well interesting!

They Should teach this at school!

Can’t believe that i’ve Got to the age I have without knowing all this! Or that my Gardner didn’t know either!

Brilliant thanks AIBU for the lesson. Appreciate it! All sorted now.

glad you got it sorted Ginger, can I stop sitting on my hands now and say it's gardener. Not Gardner.

Sorry,

For landscape work I always quote by the whole day because what on earth am I going to do with the leftover couple of hours?? There is also materials/waste/tools to dispose of or return or store until the next time.
If someone wants a QUOTE rather than a price for time and materials then that quote has to have a contingency built in for discovering the job is a lot harder than first thought. Such as lifting turf to discover the soil is stoney shite that needs replacing or that plants can’t be dug out or that a patio that looked fine to start with actually needs repointing.
On time and materials you get what you pay for but have to trust your tradesperson to work at normal speed (providing tea and biscuits helps with this!!)
With a quote you will normally end up paying more so that the tradesperson never loses out if anything goes wrong.

Hahaha!

I’ve been thinking it didn’t look right!

Och well, another lesson for the day!

That’s helpful too, thanks daffodils!

Over time I’ve managed to find all sorts of amazing tradesmen who are completely trustworthy. I’ve known some of them for years. I don’t even bother to ask for quotes or estimates with some of them. They charge a fair hourly or daily rate and work hard while they work. They don’t take the piss and I don’t take the piss.

Hourly or daily rates work really well when you know and trust the people working for you.