...to wonder why people are so rude about vegans?

[CheekyWombat101]

Obviously not everyone, but in general, I can’t go a single day without hearing a comment or spotting an eye roll if the word ‘vegan’ is spoken out loud. It’s like a dirty word. Ironically a word usually brought up by someone who isn’t vegan, but starts the conversation and then takes offence at it. It’s really bizarre.

Over and over again you hear associated words like... fad, militant, extreme, unhealthy...

Why? Why do some non-vegans take such an interest, and such an offence to it all?

Non-vegans who don’t care or are supportive - you are awesome! Please keep doing what you’re doing, it’s really refreshing.

I love people who peddle the "natural" idea

You missed the point, I'm not peddling any natural idea.
I'm not talking about what it's natural for humans to do (where did this sucking bone marrow come from?).
Farm animals have been selectively bred, that's all, so they no longer resemble their wild, natural origins.
For example, cows have been bred to produce larger and larger amounts of milk, to the point where they have to be milked now, or their udders get too full and painful.

It's a joke Bertrand The punchline was 'humble pie'.

I will always ask for people's choices if hosting a dinner party. I'm not alone. And yes wheat intolerant is high on my list as well.

It's fun to do. However, my original post was that meat eaters, and I do eat meat occasionally, will tuck in to those whose other dietary needs are being met. Which isn't funny.

@BertrandRussell whole of dh family is vegan including a specialist nutritionist vegan. She looks about 100 when is in fact 29 so that alone puts me off tbh. Although perhaps I would look that way to if I was all ‘natural’
I have other vegan friends. Goodness me who doesn’t from London these days.

I am often asked by meat eaters why I am vegan, and although I don't want to preach, I am also not going to lie. When I then explain it is an ethical choice for me, some of them feel attacked and start driving me into a corner / pulling out a bunch of "alternative" facts (fabricated evolutionary biology is a favourite). Then I have to defend myself and before I know it, I am the militant vegan. Even though if they don't ask, I don't say anything. I always assume others are informed and made their own choice - which is fine.

Where does leather come from Bertrand?

The skin of a carcass of a dead animal. Usually male.

@BertrandRussell sorry should have read dh sister is nutritionist* haven’t had my daily cheese yet...

You are- my point is that the idea of some things being 'natural' is bollox.
Meaningless bollox.

Selective breeding is simply manipulating the forces that drive evolution. It is no more natural or unnatural than the force that destroyed the dinosaurs.

"Natural" as a term is used to peddle some much shite. Ooo it's natural, it must be good... Death, disease and suffering are all natural too.

Typing on my phone is natural to me. Smashing up bones to get at the rotten marrow, was probably natural to our earliest ancestors.

There are no and never have been any 'naturally' or traditionally vegan homo Saipan cultures. Largely vegetarian, certainly. There is always some form of dairy or seafood in there though, even in small quantities.

If people want to be vegan that's great, just don't understand why people want to base that decision on bullshit. Just do it and be happy.

I don't get anyone asking why a person is vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, or whatever. Your choice. Your business. What's it to them?
'

deydododatdodontdeydo cows go through a lactation cycle every 12 months really, producing different volumes of milk at different stages, depending on their breed, diet and management. All cows are 'dried off' before being put back in calf, ie not producing milk at all.
So no, not all cows have to be milked all the time, and the udders of most mammals get very full and painful if they aren't milked, mine included.

“Where does leather come from Bertrand?”
I know where leather comes from.

What I don’t understand is why vegans should provide meat for anyone wearing leather shoes.

Don’t think the wedding thing is unreasonable though. Most people can go vegan for a few hours for someone that’s kind enough to invite them to their big day! That is intolerant and I suppose a bit ironic on this thread.

Mmm, have to say that the vegans I know are fairly twattish about it in a way that the vegetarians in know aren’t. I don’t care what anyone eats, don’t judge them for their dietary preferences and expect not to be judged on return.

I went to a vegetarian 21st. I wish we were still speaking so I could find out what recipe they used for their burger patties - they were gorgeous!

If people are vegan or vegetarian, then of course it's understandable that they will want to cater their functions as such. It's a bit like people who are teetotal - they're obviously likely not to want to provide alcohol! (Although if it's NYE they shouldn't be surprised if some people might politely decline. . .)

squeekywheel

You're attacking an argument I didn't make.
I never said natural = good.
I never mentioned natural vegan cultures, ffs. I'm not even talking about what is natural to eat or not.

A PP asked whether farm animals would become extinct. Why would farmers create animals which have been selectively bred for a purpose, if the purpose didn't exist?
All of this is hypothetical because it's not going to happen.

Ihaventgottimeforthis
Yes, I know that. I didn't say "all the time" for that reason.

OK so your point was cows need to be milked. It's a fair point.

I attempted vegan burgers once. “They look like poos mummy” which they did.

No, I'm attacking your use of the term 'natural'. It's wrong.

I know you never mentioned 'vegan cultures' but vegan food is often touted as more natural, when it very often is anything but. A rare steak is more 'natural' that many vegan products. It's doublethink. That point was made generally, not directly at you.

I suspect my kids would have a cow if I served them up vegan burgers. . .

I think the problem is that the vegans I know are really quite militant and also rude!

I have no issues whatsoever with what anyone chooses to eat/consume/use. I don't preach or try to make others feel bad for their choices. Unfortunately, the vegans I know do.
I have/had a very close friend who is now vegan. It's wonderful and she's very happy, the problem with this is she now can't not say something about what I'm eating/using. It's tiring and honestly I now avoid her as much as possible.
It's been 2 years now and I'm sick of being judged all the time.
I also don't want to see videos of animals being tortured every time i look at fb.

This particular person lived on bacon/chicken/cheese etc just 2 years ago.

No, I'm attacking your use of the term 'natural'. It's wrong.

I posted:
They have also been bred for their purpose, so they're not natural either.
Wild cattle are long gone, sadly.

So my use of natural was wrong there? Use another word then.
I think you're splitting hairs, because you want to attack people who laud "natural" food.
I reiterate - I never said (and don't believe) that natural = good.
What I did say is that selectively bred farm animals would probably become extinct, or close to, because they have only been created for their purpose.

I know you never mentioned 'vegan cultures' but vegan food is often touted as more natural,

Then please take that up with someone who does tout it as more natural i.e. not me, thanks.

I know a preachy vegan who champions the cause...preaches to anyone and everyone, looks down on those who eat mean..... I also know for a fact she eats a rare steak twice a year in secret, apparently her cheat days. What an idiot 🤦🏻‍♀️

I’m fascinated with how vegan substitutes have evolved eg chick pea ‘juice’ made into meringue so from that point of view the more creative people are with food, the better.

The concern I have with the people I know who are vegan is that they’re on the brink of orthorexia. Be vegan if you want but don’t make yourself ill trying to be a ‘perfect’ one.

What is more 'natural' about a wild cow than a domestic one? They're both cows. Is one more cow-ey than the other?

It's meaningless. Also, I'm not splitting hairs. Words matter, especially loaded words like 'natural'.

I can't stand all that 'natural' food bollox, you're right there!

I think that if you're a vegan for ethical reasons, and actually like the taste of meat, then it must be very hard to adhere to that diet, and I respect them making that effort, and understand that sometimes it might get a bit too much. Again, that's their business. But if they are preachy and judgmental of those that don't share their beliefs and eating habits, then it's also understandable that those they preach to might find that a bit hard to take without comment!

I think it is because if some eats meat and is a twat, then they are just a twat.

If someone is a twat who is vegan, people blame it on being vegan, as though a lack of cheese turns you into an arsehole. And the experience of this one twat is repeated every time veganism is mentionned.

FWIW, I am vegan and have never experienced anyone in RL being hostile to me because of it. I always bring a vegan contribution to social events and people are always keen to try it. I am not what you might call an ethical vegan and I have no problems whatsoever with other people's food choices.

I think some people who are not vegan assume vegans are judging them and therefore feel the need to justify their choices by attacking the choice of vegans. They are dicks. Just like vegans who attack people who are not vegan.

I know this next bit is going to be controversial but for me, the number one reason people eat animal products (including myself in the past) is because they are bloody delicious. And there is nothing wrong with that.

What frustrates me is if people feel that they need to argue that their choices are superior by trotting out the B12 thing (easily dealt with by fortified foods), calcuim and protien, neither of which are lacking in a healthy vegan diet. If we didn't wash our vegetables we could get B12 from the soil just like animals do. They don't make it themselves.

The average, unhealthy omnivore is often vitamin deficient but probably takes no steps to rectify that and it is not talked about.

I have only seen this hostility online and like most things, I think in RL people would be far more reasonable on both sides.