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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there's something seriously wrong with the police in America?

71 replies

itsbloodybaltic · 17/06/2019 21:20

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48660143

Phoenix mayor apologises after police threaten to shoot black family

www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-costco-shooting-off-duty-officer-intellectual-disability-20190616-story.html

Costco shooting: Man killed by off-duty officer had an intellectual disability, cousin says

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/utah-police-gun-10-year-old_n_5cffa486e4b06d839dc551f1

Utah Police Chief Defends Officer Who Pointed Gun At Black 10-Year-Old

It's scary how trigger happy they can be.

OP posts:
SilverySurfer · 18/06/2019 11:19

hormonesorDHbeingadick
I think it’s hard to understand from our culture where the role of the police is to protect and help people and in the US and many other countries they just catch the ‘bad guys’.

But they don't just catch the bad guys do they? How many examples have been brought to light of their brutality against completely innocent people. There must be many more of which we are unaware.

Yabbers · 18/06/2019 11:23

Have a look at what happened to Freddy Gray. Kalief Browder.

Tamir Rice. Antonio Arce. Willie McCoy. Trayvon Martin.

Having “the talk” with a young black son is not about safe sex, it’s about how not to be shot by police.

Then there is what the justice system does with non white men, who are wrongful convicted in much higher numbers, and imprisoned with much harsher sentences than their white counterparts.

Why don’t people do anything about it? Because it doesn’t affect them. Because they can look the other way. Because when black people protest they are seen to be causing trouble and risk being shot themselves. Because those who can do something about it are elected officials and risk losing power if they stand up for people who are seen by others as a drain on society, lowest of the low, trouble making criminals.

And because far right wing politicians made it acceptable to be racist in public.

We were getting somewhere. Politics since 2016 has set us back decades.

Yabbers · 18/06/2019 11:25

our culture where the role of the police is to protect and help people

Protect and Serve is literally the motto of many police forces in the US and has been for decades.

Zipee · 18/06/2019 11:36

It can be the motto it doesn't mean they follow it.

HulksPurplePanties · 18/06/2019 11:38

There is something seriously wrong with America. End of.

GreigLaidlawsbarofsoap · 18/06/2019 11:41

It is institutionalised racism plus guns.

It always makes me laugh when I hear Americans going on about being "the greatest country in the world". Hilarious that they genuinely think that. I and everyone else I know wouldn't live there if you paid us. I can think of so many other countries with better standards of living, healthcare, education, social programmes, care of the elderly and disabled etc than the US. Oh yeah and our kids don't get needlessly murdered in schools on a regular basis. Confused

Dontcarewhatimdoing · 18/06/2019 11:48

I agree, the whole situation in America is terrifying. Lets face it who would want to be a police officer in a country where anyone is likely to be armed. I am not surprised they don't attract the best people to be police officers, I'd imagine they have to take what they can get, so its no wonder that what they end up with a bunch of brainless, trigger happy racists.

Zipee · 18/06/2019 11:58

Its only the world leader in nominal GDP, every other statistic it trails, except for inequality in advanced economies.

31 for life expectancy, 32nd for infant mortality, 24th in reading, 25th in science, 39th in maths.

Number 1 in defence spending too.

Pipandmum · 18/06/2019 12:02

Not many Americans I know would say or think that they are the ‘greatest’ country. But it is the most powerful. Many Americans are appalled at the political direction it is taking, and no one would condone the violence on any level.
America is a huge country and not homogenous at all. I don’t think you can compare it to England because of the scale of it.

Idontwanttotalk · 18/06/2019 12:17

In a country where guns are carried the police do have to be fearful for their own safety. I can imagine they are under great pressure.

I note when they have stopped us they always have their hand on their holster ready to draw their gun if necessary. On one occasion in Santa Barbara, California we were stopped for not physically stopping at an interchange (crossroads) although it was clear to go. When DH turned around to get his licence out of a duffle bag on the car's back seat, the cop had his hand on his gun ready. It shocked us but, for those cops it can be a case of shoot or be shot. They have to be very alert.

On another occasion we were stopped for 'brisk speed' in Moab in the Nevada desert. It was ridiculously hot so I got out of the car when the cop asked my DH to get out. The cop told me, politely, to get back in. I insisted several times I couldn't stay in the car in that heat now the air con wasn't on. The cop asked me several times and I only got back in when he went to draw his weapon. Again, we were shocked but I guess he was protecting himself as he was alone and we probably hadn't seen any other cars for about 100 miles. I suppose he must have felt we were a potential threat to him.

I think we have to understand the climate they work in to realise why police sometimes could shoot in error or are occasionally over zealous in USA.

GreigLaidlawsbarofsoap · 18/06/2019 12:20

@Pipandmum I wasn't comparing it to England. For one thing, if you couldn't guess by my username, I'm Scottish Grin

LaminateAnecdotes · 18/06/2019 12:20

US police appear to give UK police something to aspire to ....

Tabitha005 · 18/06/2019 12:24

The police, the politicians (although our current shitshow here in the UK isn't anything to be proud of, either), the lawmaking (repealing abortion rights, for example), the absolute diabolical state of the US healthcare system where bankruptcy over medical bills is commonplace and the ingrained, generational ideals of capitalism all conspire to convince me the US is a country I would never, EVER, wish to make my home in.

The utter lunacy of nutcase ultra-conservative religious fanatics in power in the US is terrifying and beyond the comprehension of anyone with a shred of humility.

Zipee · 18/06/2019 12:28

"Occasionally over zelous"

Understament.

Or proven to be using different levels of force depending on your skin colour.

Oh and police killed in US by guns in 2018? 52.

Number of deaths due to being shot by police? 992.

Yabbers · 18/06/2019 12:37

I think we have to understand the climate they work in to realise why police sometimes could shoot in error or are occasionally over zealous in USA.

There is no pressure in the world which should lead you to raise a gun to the head of a 12 year old boy. Or to a mother with a toddler in their arms. Or to put a young man into the rear of a police van and give him a “rough ride” resulting in fatal head injuries. If pressure is making you do that, you are in the wrong job.

@Zipee

Yes they can ignore it, but the post I responded to suggested it was not their role. It literally is.

Buster72 · 18/06/2019 13:41

ahem
Trayvon Martin was not shot by police.

Not saying it was right, but it was not police.

The USA has an issue with firearms in general, so it will reflect in the police.

IsabellaLinton · 18/06/2019 13:54

Or proven to be using different levels of force depending on your skin colour

Police are actually less likely to shoot a black suspect than a white suspect.

Zipee · 18/06/2019 14:04

Black people make up 12 percent of the population and 25 percent of those shot.

White people make up 73 percent of the population and 53 percent of those shot.

Dickybow321 · 18/06/2019 14:17

There you go zipee being logical with your statistics Wink

Buster72 · 18/06/2019 14:34

The vast number of police shootings involve an armed suspect. The majority of fatal shootings involving another person are linked to violent crime.

Doesn't make it right just is.

Yabbers · 18/06/2019 14:39

Trayvon Martin was not shot by police. Not saying it was right, but it was not police.
But the police investigation into what happened, the way he was talked about by the police in press conferences, the support of Martin, who shot an entirely innocent person who posed no threat, and yet the police accepted Martin was right to do so under the stand your ground laws because there was no evidence he was lying (since when was that the standard of justice?)

This is also what the police are doing to black people in the US. And that’s why when a white person shoots a black person (or calls the police on them, or abuses them in the street) they feel justified in doing so, simply because of the colour of their skin.

You don’t have to be shot by police to have your life ruined. Ask any one of the 1200 black people exonerated since 1989, who cumulatively have served over 15,000 years in prison for crimes they did not commit.

Out of interest, those 1200 total almost 50% of those exonerated and yet represent 57% of the number of years served by exonerees. White people make up 37% of exonerations, but represent only 32% of the number of years served.

The biggest factor leading to wrongful convictions is overzealous police officers working to make a case where none actually exists. This is what the US are doing to black people.

Yabbers · 18/06/2019 14:46

*correction, the way Zimmerman was treated by the police.

Buster72 · 18/06/2019 15:29

I think a jury found Zimmerman innocent.

The Florida law is clear on stand your ground. It's a world away from what the UK would accept.

(I don't like it btw)

Gth1234 · 18/06/2019 15:37

The US has a completely different approach to crime that we do. I was watching an episode of hardcore pawn (Les and family running a big pawn shop in Detroit). I don't know if it's real or set up, but they regularly throw people out by force. The other day they had vandals breaking into cars in their car park. They apprehended and handcuffed them, then called the police. If you tried to do that here, you would end up inside.

Not many Americans I know would say or think that they are the ‘greatest’ country. But it is the most powerful. Many Americans are appalled at the political direction it is taking, and no one would condone the violence on any level.

Would they not? really? Where would they rather live? Why are so many people trying to get into America, then?

tearinmybeer · 18/06/2019 15:44

You are being so reasonable. The whole thing literally brings me to tears, often.

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