Primary School class split

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AIBU - My son currently attends a small primary school and is currently in a year 3/4 class. Have been spoken to by the head and told they are restructuring the classes and his new class will be going Y4/5/6 from September. However, due to numbers, a couple of the children will have to move to the Y2/3 class which they will call a Y2/3/4 class but the majority of the class will be Y2 & Y3 and there will only be about 3 Y4 children in that class. They have told me he is one of the ones to stay in that class with the younger year groups as he struggles, which he does because he is dyslexic!

AIBU to think that this is a horrendous move that will destroy any self esteem he still has or am I just being an overprotective Mama bear whoe doesn't want her son hurt?

My eldest went to a small school. They had R/Y1, Y1/Y2, Y3, Y4/5 and Y5/6.

DS was very able, so often with the older kids. It worked well for us because he got on better with the older boys than the boys his age. His best friend was a year older and always in the “held back” group. It didn’t do him any harm though as he caught up by Y6 and did as well in his SATS as the kids who had always moved up.

I’m not a fan of small schools though. I think it’s nicer for kids to haves big choice of friends.

TBH whilst I feel a bit of sympathy for the Head - because it must be tough going, generally, it isn't the OPs job to work out an alternative solution.

I would:
Ring the LEA first thing in the morning and find out what the other options could be for different schools
Tell the head that you refuse to allow your child to be placed this way, oh and the other 2 parents feel the same, and actually speak to the rest of the class parents, as if it's not your kid, it might be theirs.
They will not want to be losing more children from the school, after all.

I would, I have to say, hate to be the teacher of the Y2/3/4 class.

Two key stages, 3 year groups. With e.g. Maths now having a very clear 'Year Group' structure in the National Curriculum, and almost all subjects having a clear KS1 / KS2 divide, planning properly and effectively for all year groups would be very time consuming. And I would imagine that splitting the Y4 group 'by ability' would raise the SEN numbers in that class quite high.

Interesting thead. As a child in a small village primary we basically had just an infant (F-2) and a (3-6) junior class. It didn't seem to have had any negative influence as far as I can see on later outcomes. Children blossom academically at different times. I know of a girl that didn't perform particulary well at Primary but who went on to excel at secondary and become a doctor. You may well find that as an older child in the class, his confidence will grow massively. Now that my children are adults I wish I'd had the hindsight at the time to realise that they will do what they do and are interested in. You can have the brightest child in the world but if they just aren't movitated/interested they won't reach the potential you believe they will and vice versa. I truly believe the ability to talk the talk will take them much further than academic abilties.

Rather than trying to reduce the overall size of the older class, they may be trying to increase the number of KS2 children in the younger class.

If there are more KS1 than KS2 children in a class, then it is subject to the Infant Class Size regulations. If there are more KS2 children in the class, then it is not. So, for example:
16 Y2s + 15 Y3s = 31 children, the majority being KS1 = illegal
16 Y2s + 15 Y3s + 3 Y4s = 34 children, majority being KS2 = legal

None of this helps you, OP, or your child. If the school won't put him in the older class with his peers, then you can really only put up with it, complain using the school's complaints procedure (which the school must give you if you ask) or move your child.

As a teacher I can vouch for this not being a problem in particular. However, in Scotland, composite classes cannot be bigger than 25 and then there has to be space throughout the year for new starts so therefore the class would be no larger than 23. It doesn't sound like this is the case where you are though? An experienced teacher should handle this and I wouldn't see it as your son being held back. There's only so much you can do with 86 pupils in a 3 teacher school!

Using rough figures, 86 kids will mean a total Gag income of around £350k. Typical patterns would be a school spending 75% of that on staff, so £260k. 3 teachers on an average of £30k (top end of main scale) would be 90k, which would be 120k with ni and pension costs. Three TAs on 15k per year, 60k incl on costs, leaves 60k for a head including on costs, that would be a salary of just over 40k which is barely onto the leadership scale. That's why they aren't employing a 4th teacher - they can barely afford 3!

I would really be most concerned that Y2 is KS1, & Y3 is KS2, so that alone makes a Y2/Y3 class sound hard to organise, without adding some Y4 into the mix

My kids went to a c 200 pupil primary school which lost a couple of teachers along the way in the 90s due to budget cuts. Originally there were 3 classes of Y3/Y4 & 3 of Y5/Y6 but at one point they had to drop to 5 KS2 classes - 2 of Y3/Y4 (all of Y3, youngest Y4), 1 of Y4/Y5 (oldest Y4, youngest Y5) & 2 of Y5/Y6 (oldest Y5, all of Y6).

Splitting the children by age is much the fairest way for all. DS1 is a summer birthday & was the youngest in his year. Inevitably, apart from Y3, he was always in classes with younger children. He didn't like it, because his best friends were all older, but nobody can argue with the calendar. Splitting by "ability" is always going to be very contentious (& most distressing for those held back as OP says).

He admittedly had no issues like dyslexia but he wasn't apparently held back academically (possibly socially - I always thought he would have benefited that way from being with the older kids but heigh-ho) and subsequently passed 11+ so it's not necessarily a hindrance long-term - depending on the calibre of teacher I suppose?

OP, if the numbers have to be divided as stated, can you argue that it should be done purely by age instead?

thread

It sounds as if the school is also an academy, which makes accountability lines ... interesting...

Apple,. that's an interesting take. I don't THINK that you can do that - ie flood a class with KS2 children to increase the total number so the KS1 children are less than half. I THINK 16 KS1 children takes you into ICS territory, regardless of overall class size.

MrsPink,

In England, a KS2 class, composite or not, can be any size at all.

If over the school's PAN (typically set at 30 for a single class entry school), then children have to appeal to be admitted over this number, but if the panel decide that the detriment to the child is worse than that to the school, then the child is admitted.

IME the tipping point where appeals almost always fail is around 32-34 in a single form entry, depending on the general layout of the school, and may remain at 30-31 in schools with small classrooms (my DC's school, with tiny classrooms, has held rigorously to 30 throughout the school forever).

In schools with PANs which lead to mixed age classes, or where a rural school seldom admits to PAN and has a lumpy intake, then there are no legal structures covering class numbers in KS2. In those circumstances, I have taught a mixed age class of 35.

That's really interesting...I guess we are a lot luckier up here then. My kids have never been in a class bigger than 23!

If you split by age, you will still get parents complaining. The big issue here is that’s it’s only three children from one year group in one of the split classes.

If the 2/3/4 and 4/5/6 classes are both above 31, then not splitting the year 4 doesn’t seem like an option. The only reasonable option here might be for some of the year 2 to go into a R/1/2 class and then run the 2/3/4 and the 4/5/6 with a better split of year 4 between the two classes.

OhhGreat - thanks for explaining. Do you know if it's compulsory to have TAs? 1 per class sounds great but, as a teacher I would definitely prefer to teach a class of 22ish Y3/4s with no TA than a class of 32ish Y2/3/4s with a TA.

I'm independent sector so I'm clueless. Our staff numbers are directly related to our pupil numbers but in more of a 'oh shit, too many children are leaving so we have to drop a member of staff' way than a very set, worked out ratio kind of way. We have TAs in KS1 but in KS2 and KS3, apart from specified 1:1s for children with statements, we don't (class sizes are max 22 and can be as small as 10 so really not needed).

RafaIsTheKingOfClay
If you split by age, you will still get parents complaining.

yes, you will, & my school did, but the calendar is objective, & no amount of "but my little darling is the cleverest of them all" can counter it.

I wouldn't be happy with this.
What are your other options with other schools? Have you got decent alternatives? If so I wouldn't hesitate in transferring him, especially if he's not going to be with any of his friends this year.

This happened at my dd’s School a few years ago, several parents took their kids out of the school. My dd was one of 3 children being kept in the lower year group (my dd has ASD), she did adapt really well and made friends with kids in the year below her but then the following year she was in a different class to most of them which upset her a bit. It caused a lot of arguments between parents and the head but they wouldn’t change their mind on the arrangement.

As a teacher in lreland l am familiar with multi class and have taught up to 32 in a 4 class situation.
Most of my work these days is with dyslexia.
l am raging for your child. Children with dyslexia are often very bright orally and make a huge contribution to a class dynamic. Staying with younger children will be awful for him. He has already suffered realising he has dyslexia and he would be the last child l would want to upset or knock his confidence.
He may feel he hasn't tried hard enough or that he will never be good enough.
Does he have extra help in school from a SEN teacher? A teacher with lots of younger children will not have the time to give him the individual help he needs.
But if the school persists l would feel they don't get him and want to take him out of that situation.

sound completely sensible.

Other countries are not scared of keeping a child behind, and let them repeat a class, and the only ones to move up are the ones who reach the minimum expected levels. No one is scared for life, no one is ashamed, it gives the kids a chance to catch up instead of being pushed to the next level and never catching up and stay behind.

I never understood why we are so reluctant to follow.

I agree that splitting by age would be the least controversial and least stigmatising. What I would say is, though, spare a thought for the head before you go in all guns blazing. I'm quite sure that he/she absolutely won't want to be taking this step, and is probably getting a load of shit from parents about it, and may well be facing a falling roll as a result, if other schools in the area haven't had to make this move - but probably doesn't have any other choice. If you love everything else about the school, as you say, then it's highly unlikely that this has been done without a huge amount of thought and soul-searching. Doesn't mean you have to agree with the decision, but ultimately the school staff are the ones with all the information, and they will have made what they think is the best decision for the school as a whole, as they should. And you might want to speak to the governors if you're concerned; it might have been as much or more their decision than the Head's.

Why are they splitting classes? Our school did that last year and it was a disaster. The scraped it now as the children were unhappy to be separated from their friends and found it overwhelming. The older children were mentally more developed Loads of parent took their kids out. Luckily my child was in the normal year. They did it due to the school being undersubscribed.

Surely the only reason you'd do this is because your roll has fallen and you can no longer afford 4 teachers? You only need to lose 5 children from your whole school PAN to lose a teacher's salary, so if you've got no slack in your budget it doesn't take much to bring you to this point.

Particularly if you've got a PAN of 15 or 20 so you're already running a half class somewhere.

We have R,1,2 in one class and 3,4,5,6 in the other. Only 2 classes in our school

Devil’s advocate here but it could be a brilliant thing for your ds. Big fish small pond and all that. Mixed year group classes are the norm in small schools and teachers are used to managing the differences, as you’ve already experienced I’m sure. The fact is teachers are often differentiating work 5 ways or more in a single year group class so actually it doesn’t make a huge difference. The most important thing here is how does your son feel about it. Try not to put your own judgements (eg being moved back) on the situation. It may be that he is fine with it and that going back over some of the key concepts from year 3, with differentiation, may really benefit him. I’ve definitely got children in my class who would have really benefited with going back over key concepts from the year before, but we just don’t have the time often.