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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that inviting primary children to witness erect penises, gang rape references and spikes up mens arses isn't artistic, it's pedophilia?

447 replies

ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun · 15/06/2019 07:27

This art exhibition is being pushed by Gendered Intelligence, a group that works in schools:

www.transgendertrend.com/gendered-intelligence-training-teachers-kiss-my-genders/

The event is not age restricted, in fact children are being actively encouraged to go.

I have been informed by a very 'woke' friend that this is art and I am homophobic, kink shaming, and transphobic (because apparently even linking to the above website on my FB is, no matter what it says) and that maybe I should go with my own primary aged dc to 'broaden my mind'.

My mind has been broadened. That friend obviously shouldn't be let anywhere near my dc again.

AIBU?

  • Opening post edited at OP's request
OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Stealthymcstealth · 15/06/2019 14:06

This is terrifying, womens rights and safety being bulldozed by this bullshit and now this!? It's normalising child abuse, how the actual fuck is this happening!

Could anybody who is more educated on the matter link to anything or point me in the right direction so I can educate myself please.

Usernumbers1234 · 15/06/2019 14:06

Look, it’s a bit weird and frankly I wouldn’t be encouraging my primary age schoolchildren to go there

But that’s not really what’s happening here is it, your thread title is a phenomenally misleading overreaction.

NoSquirrels · 15/06/2019 14:12

The exhibition itself is not being targeted at primary-age children.

That Gendered Intelligence event for teachers specifically says it is to open up ways of discussing gender with the set as a discussion point t for the teachers.

They are targeting the teachers to get gender ideology into schools from primary upwards, and I do t like that at all.

But everyone needs to be careful about over-stating the case in outrage.

carla1983 · 15/06/2019 14:14

YANBU. I think this is pedophilic to invite school children to view it. Why else would anyone do that?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/06/2019 14:16

How can this be happening?

Because this is where the insistence on nothing being judged and everything - no matter how debased - being tolerated as a "lifestyle choice" has brought us

And this is how a civilisation destroys itself ...

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 15/06/2019 14:18

I know! Let's ask the leading child safety and protection charity in the UK what they teach as part of their in-school safeguarding!

[my excerpts - full copy at https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/services/speak-out-stay-safe/#article-top]

We hold a 30-minute assembly, covering the topics below...
Explaining different types of abuse
We explain the different types of abuse in a simple, age appropriate way, so that children understand when something's not right...
It can involve being shown inappropriate films or pictures...

SadAngry

To think that inviting primary children to witness erect penises, gang rape references and spikes up mens arses isn't artistic, it's pedophilia?
To think that inviting primary children to witness erect penises, gang rape references and spikes up mens arses isn't artistic, it's pedophilia?
CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 15/06/2019 14:21

But that’s not really what’s happening here is it, your thread title is a phenomenally misleading overreaction

Wake up.

ineedaknittedhat · 15/06/2019 14:23

'The price of peace is eternal vigilance'.

People really need to reach inside and get acquainted with their inner cynic instead of blindly trusting what's being thrust (literally in this case) in front of them.

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 14:24

The exhibition itself is not being targeted at primary-age children

JFC - yes it is. The exhibition page details discounts for school groups and free entry for teachers bringing primary groups (kids also free). That IS targeting it at primary kids. Not their main target, no, but one of them.

Stealthymcstealth · 15/06/2019 14:28

I have just come to the realisation that I couldn't give a flying fuck about being 'woke'. I won't tie myself up in knots trying to be completely inclusive and not judging anybody for how they choose to lead their lives because where does it stop? Apparently not at child grooming and pedophilia.
It is a horrible state of affairs that the LGBT community has been infiltrated by people with a sickening agenda but I care a damn sight more about the safety of vulnerable children. I hope and pray that the LGBT community can differentiate themselves from those who use it's protection as a veil for their own sinister intent.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 15/06/2019 14:32

It is a horrible state of affairs that the LGBT community has been infiltrated by people with a sickening agenda

Even more horrific that not only are they not rejecting it, many within it are actively supporting and celebrating it!

The silent ones are just as culpable too, cf Martin Niemoller's verse.

Usernumbers1234 · 15/06/2019 14:33

Catherine, I’m well awake to the issues, it’s just that ludicrous headlines like these do absolutely nothing to aid debate on the topic with the people that need to be debating it, the middle ground. But instead, two small cabals of lunatics at either extreme of the debate continue to throw shock headlines at each other and everyone in the middle throws their hands up and says “well obviously my 5 year old isn’t going to an exhibition of spike sodomy” and moves along and leaves the extremists to shout at each other. Again.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 15/06/2019 14:34

I'd be re-considering your 'friendship' with your 'friend' OP. He might think you're 'transphobic' (you're not for not wanting primary age kids to see porn, which is what this is) but I'd say he's a child sexual abuse apologist.

This is truly appalling. Going to RTFT to see if there's someone I can complain to. This meets the definition of abuse as posted above by Buzz

You wouldn't be able to take kids to see the movie described in a cinema, for good reason, presumably just being in an art gallery doesn't mean this is allowed? Surely there should be some sort of clear warning there is adult content? Instead of that they're offering discounts to school groups. Unbelievable.

ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun · 15/06/2019 14:35

But that’s not really what’s happening here is it, your thread title is a phenomenally misleading overreaction

I don't believe it is at all.

I'm absolutely horrified by the underreaction to this. If the news aren't going to run this story by anyone how do you get the word out there?

I went down a rabbit hole earlier at lunch. I feel physically sick now.

I won't link it, but there is a video of a young boy (7/8?) in tiny hotpants twerking at pride, and some sick fuck trying to sidle up to him. I've seen a tweet from someone who attended pride, describing a beautiful 7 year old girl on a float and how they'd made eye contact.

There seems to be a huge ugly perverted mass of sexual deviants hiding behind normal gay people, using them as a cultural shield. And no one can call them out on it because, hey, apparently this is what being gay is all about Hmm

There is still no reply to my email. I'll give them a ring when I have chance.

OP posts:
TheRedBarrows · 15/06/2019 14:43

OP, the links you mention as available on Twitter are an outrage.

The thriving network of Paedophiles masquerading under the pretence if ‘MAP’ and ‘NOMAP’ is an outrage.

The exhibition sounds totally unsuitable for primary schools, and the education aspect thoroughly mishandled by the Hayward.

But that is not the same thing, IMO.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 15/06/2019 14:46

Inviting primary teachers to use the exhibition with their children is targeting children. Just as paedophiles target female single parents, making themselves useful / getting involved in family life, grooming the whole family in order to abuse their children. It's a very 'successful' technique and countless children and families have paid the price.

Frankly we need more outrage at this, not minimising and excusing those eroding children's boundaries and safety.

Outofinspiration · 15/06/2019 14:51

Usernumbers1234

What the fuck are you on about? If you go to book tickets here, it gives an option for under 12s. It states there is nudity and sexual imagery yet there is no age restriction. It gives group discounts for primary school groups, 4-11 year olds.

Primary school age kids are absolutely being 'invited' to this, so what is misleading about the thread title?

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 14:59

Do we learn nothing from the past? Telegraph article about PIE:

We on the Left lacked the courage to be branded 'homophobic’, so we just ignored it. I wish I hadn’t'

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10653950/We-on-the-Left-lacked-the-courage-to-be-branded-homophobic-so-we-just-ignored-it.-I-wish-I-hadnt.html

Eileen Fairweather was among those who failed to condemn the Paedophile Information Exchange in the Seventies

By Eileen Fairweather8:50PM GMT 21 Feb 2014
In the late Seventies, when the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) was at its height, I was a young radical, daft as a brush, and worked for a feminist publication, Spare Rib, which it targeted.

PIE asked the magazine to “show solidarity”, after police began arresting members. Chief propagandist Tom O’Carroll — later imprisoned — sent the monthly glossy excerpts of his book, Paedophilia: the Radical Case, and invited us to a PIE public meeting.

The National Front had picketed the first PIE meeting at Conway Hall, in London’s Red Lion Square and spat and punched at the paedophiles as they went in, while members of the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL) attempted to protect them. To younger people now, it seems incredible that Leftists once defended paedophiles. But, to their shame, and the continuing long-term harm of British children, many did. I know that better than most, remembering our anguished, earnest conversations.

PIE fooled so many on the Left, within academia and in social work, because they adroitly hijacked the language of liberation. Little was known then or discussed about the extent or horror of child abuse. PIE members also portrayed themselves as “child lovers”, benign uncle figures who offered tenderness, not rape.

They claimed that paedophiles, like women, gay men and children, were “oppressed by the patriarchy”. Therefore we should all make common cause. Spare Rib, to its credit, refused to fall for this self-serving guff. But nor did we condemn it. I was the staffer delegated to read O’Carroll’s book, and I lacked the courage to be branded “homophobic” — as opponents of PIE were. So we just ignored it.

I wish I hadn’t. But, extraordinarily, to the detriment of both vulnerable children and ordinary, decent gay men, men campaigning for sex with small boys had cynically positioned themselves under the sheltering banner of gay rights.

Recent reports have exposed how future Labour Party MPs held key roles in the Seventies at NCCL, which effectively supported PIE’s aims.

These MPs have refused to explain or apologise. They should — because the evil legacy of that era, our lack of intelligent thinking and moral courage, still reverberates. I recovered from my failure of nerve and went on in the Nineties to expose how paedophiles had infiltrated all 12 children’s homes in Islington, north London. They did so thanks to the then far-Left council’s fatally naïve “positive discrimination’ recruitment policy. If a man wanted work with children and claimed to be gay he did not even need experience or references. Numerous independent inquiries later vindicated us.

Politicians of all hues allowed PIE to thrive. But it still angers me most when those who claim to champion the weakest in society stay silent.

Why is saving face more important than saving vulnerable children?

Eileen Fairweather won two British Press Awards for her work in exposing the Islington scandal"

Image: Patricia Hewitt (rt) Harriet Harman ( Centre) of national council of civil liberties at a press conference following a ruling that Patricia Hewit and Harriet Harman had their human rights breached after a surveillance operation by MI5
Harriet Harman, left, and Patricia Hewitt of the National Council for Civil Liberties Photo: PA

Related Articles
The 'right’ to sleep with children was one 'civil liberty’ that NCCL supported. 21 Feb 2014

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10653944/The-right-to-sleep-with-children-was-one-civil-liberty-that-NCCL-supported.html

To think that inviting primary children to witness erect penises, gang rape references and spikes up mens arses isn't artistic, it's pedophilia?
ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun · 15/06/2019 15:09

Oh my god summerofresistance....

That sounds bloody familar. I've been called all the names under the sun by the ex friend and acquaintances I'd have said were progressive. They seeemed genuinely angered that calling me a homophobe and transphobe didn't immediately make me shut up and agree with them.

Sign me up to the resistance.

OP posts:
CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 15/06/2019 15:10

just that ludicrous headlines like these do absolutely nothing to aid debate on the topic with the people that need to be debating it, the middle ground. But instead, two small cabals of lunatics at either extreme of the debate continue to throw shock headlines at each other

I agree that there are lunatics on one side.
T hose would be the type that think it's just sooooo edgy that a boy like Desmond is twerking provocatively while men 5 times his age throw money at him. Or it's soooo 'challenging stereotypes' and 'a win for inclusivity' that Teachers and school children have their minds 'broadened' by seeing images of penises and men with spikes in their arses.

Happy to be the lunatic who can see clearly how this is an affront to childhood and an attempt at grooming a generation, and children being exposed to kink is worth going angry over.

Well meaning, 'don't offend anyone' people such as yourself, will be the first ones crying out when sexual relationships with children become reframed as fine if as long as the children 'feel its ok' and are 'consenting', as has already happened to Desmond. Groomed at an age where he doesn't 'feel wrong' about the inappropriate things he's exposed to in a club at night so can therefore 'give consent' to twerking in a nightclub. His mum is at the very nicest a enabler of abuse.

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 15:20

And...

The 'right’ to sleep with children was one 'civil liberty’ that NCCL supported

The Seventies was an era of sudden sexual emancipation. To some on the Left, sex with children was just another boundary to be swept away

By Andrew Gilligan 2014

The first chapter of Tom O’Carroll’s book reads a little like a romantic novel, as the author describes his “special friendship” with a “raven-haired little charmer”, spoiled only by the “stupid, blind, socially programmed” parents who “come between” them.

In other places, it’s like soft porn, with fairly graphic descriptions of nudity and sex. (“I knew my little naked body didn’t look like anything… but Uncle Herman looked at me as if I were Sophia Loren,” gushes a female contributor.)

There are, however, several important differences. The book, a manifesto for the legalisation of sex with children, is called Paedophilia: The Radical Case. O’Carroll was a teacher, and the “raven-haired little charmer” was one of his pupils, an 11-year-old schoolboy called Chris. Uncle Herman was in his fifties, and the girl he had sex with was 12.

But most unusually of all, O’Carroll’s foreword, with its passionate plea not to “deny children their sexual life, including the possibility of sexual contact with adults”, expresses his “heartfelt thanks” to those who helped him write his rallying-call, “especially… Ms Nettie Pollard of the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL) [who] read the whole text in draft and made many helpful suggestions”.

O’Carroll had been a “sexually predatory” paedophile, “determined to find a boy, or boys, for what I assured myself would be mutually pleasurable and affectionate sex… All I had to do was pop out to the nearest canal bank, or swimming baths, or park.” After this didn’t work, he “rained letters” on Chris, then turned up on the child’s doorstep “emboldened by drink, and aggressive with it”. O’Carroll was any parent’s darkest nightmare.

Yet at the time this book was published, in 1980, O’Carroll and the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) – a body founded to openly lobby for child sex – were part of NCCL, now Liberty, Britain’s foremost mainstream civil rights organisation.

In 1975, NCCL had granted PIE official “affiliate” status. It put O’Carroll on one of its working groups, it made him a platform speaker at an NCCL conference in spring 1977, and it strongly defended paedophiles against “hysterical and inaccurate” newspaper attacks.

There was, to be fair, internal opposition to this. According to the winter 1978 edition of Gay Left magazine, NCCL’s executive voted not to distribute the transcript of O’Carroll’s 1977 conference speech, a passionate attack on the punishment of sex offenders. NCCL’s union affiliates were reluctant to accept PIE as a fraternal brother, and NCCL’s secretary, Patricia Hewitt, said “public hostility to paedophilia was such that it damaged the cause of gay rights for the gay movement to be associated with it”.

But such voices were a minority; for most of the Seventies and early Eighties, the “right” to sleep with children was one of the “civil liberties” that NCCL supported and the policy differences with PIE were ones only of degree. PIE favoured lowering the age of sexual consent broadly to four (as they generously allowed, a baby below that would “lack the verbal skill to communicate its consent”). The comparative moderates of NCCL backed a reduction merely to 10, so long as it could be demonstrated that consent “was genuinely given”.

NCCL vigorously opposed new cornerstone child abuse legislation. In a letter to the Home Office in April 1978, it argued fiercely that child pornography should not be banned as “indecent” unless it could be shown that the child depicted had been harmed. The NCCL official who wrote this letter was its legal officer, Harriet Harman.

Ms Harman is now, of course, deputy leader of the Labour Party. She presumably no longer believes what she said in the Seventies – though she has never apologised for it. But it is her role then, and that of the Left, that journalists are starting to explore as they try to understand the climate that led to an apparent child abuse epidemic in the Seventies and Eighties, manifest in dozens of major scandals – Jimmy Savile’s only the latest to come to light.

For NCCL was far from alone in its views. In 1977, the social workers’ trade paper, Community Care, published a sympathetic spread, headlined “Should we pity the paedophiles”, talking of the “liberation of children to enjoy their natural sexuality” and reassuring readers that most paedophiles preferred only over-10s, making them “less frightening than [PIE’s] campaign implies”. In 1979, the National Council for One-Parent Families called for abolishing the age of consent.

With the Pill, the legalisation of homosexuality and shrinking taboos against premarital sex, the Seventies was an era of quite sudden sexual emancipation. To some on the Left, sex by or with children was just another repressive boundary that had to be swept away. As Andrew Lumsden, an editor of Gay News at the time, said: “We were fighting against a lot of outmoded laws, and perhaps the ones against paedophilia were as outmoded as those against homosexuality or cannabis.”

Britain’s half-hearted liberalisation of homosexuality – until very recently, the gay age of consent was 21, five years above heterosexuals – also allowed the likes of O’Carroll and PIE to cleverly conflate their perverted agenda with the legitimate demands of young gay adults.

PIE tried to present any attack on paedophiles as an attack on homosexuals generally; as Gay Left put it, “realistically, the moral Right wing cannot get much support out of campaigning against homosexuality as such… but they can hope to build up a new moral consensus [against gays] around the issue of protecting childhood”.

PIE’s members, mostly educated and middle-class, were good at finding “progressive” academics – some useful idiots, others rather more sinister – to fight their cause. As O’Carroll said: “We thought we could manipulate the Establishment and find allies within it.”

In 1981, a respectable publisher, Batsford, published Perspectives on Paedophilia, edited by Brian Taylor, a sociology lecturer at Sussex University. The book’s introduction said it aimed to “inhibit… antipathy towards [paedophilia’s] discussion [and] its indulgence”.

One man, Peter Righton, contributed a strong defence of paedophilia; Righton, later convicted of child sex offences, was a member of PIE and director of education at the National Institute of Social Work.

The presence in PIE of people like Righton has led to claims that child abuse in the era involved an Establishment conspiracy, with “rings” of powerful abusers, including Cabinet ministers, protecting each other. Though there are some justified suspicions about this, hard evidence so far has been lacking. Indeed, in the political sphere, PIE’s activism clearly backfired, sparking a massive public backlash and being completely ignored by ministers – who consistently tightened, not loosened, the law.

Most people, of course, never fell for the paedophile agenda. The obvious problem with any argument that children could “consent to” or “demand” sex is that any relationship between an adult and a child involves massive disparities of power, to the child’s disadvantage. By the early Eighties, the devastating harm that abuse did was quite clear. PIE’s activists, including O’Carroll, mostly went to jail and the group was disbanded in 1984.

Yet in some organisations infected with the ideology of the Seventies and early Eighties, a climate was created where the abuse of children became acceptable. Unforgivably, those organisations included a hard-Left London council, Islington, with thousands of vulnerable children directly in its care.

In the Eighties, an official inquiry found, Islington’s children’s homes were riddled with abuse, sex and paedophile rings. Dozens of sexual predators worked for the council and were, found the inquiry, protected by misplaced “equal opportunities” policies which enabled them to cry “discrimination” if anyone tried to rein in their activities. (One key member of the NCCL executive in the paedophile period, the lawyer Henry Hodge, was married to the then Islington council leader, Margaret Hodge, now reinvented as the chairman of Parliament’s Public Accounts Committee.)

Despite the backlash, what the madness in parts of the Left did create was still dangerous.

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10653944/The-right-to-sleep-with-children-was-one-civil-liberty-that-NCCL-supported.html

truthisarevolutionaryact · 15/06/2019 15:37

PIE have never gone away. They've been working behind the scenes just looking for a movement to piggy back their views on. And along came this new movement demanding that the boundaries between the sexes were removed, insisting that gender non conforming children are identical to middle aged male transitioners and must be immediately affirmed, given medication etc and most chillingly, insisting that these children be separated (even removed) from their parents if they have any reservations that their below the age of consent child might not be fully competent to make life changing decisions.

Because the government and institutions are so frightened of being called transphobic, they immediately capitulated - opening the schools up to the like of Gendered Intelligence to go in and work directly with children. And the transgender trend blog (linked in the OP) gives an insight into just what they are talking to our children about.

ineedaknittedhat · 15/06/2019 15:42

Let's not forget that the nspcc has tweeted that it won't tolerate homophobia after objections about a gay staff member who instagrammed himself masturbating in a rubber suit in one of the toilets at work.

sackrifice · 15/06/2019 15:42

@Usernumbers1234

I’m well awake to the issues, it’s just that ludicrous headlines like these do absolutely nothing to aid debate on the topic with the people that need to be debating it, the middle ground

What debate and what middle ground exactly?

sackrifice · 15/06/2019 15:43

Lets have a debate about whether primary school kids should see porn.

Erm. No fucking way.

So that's that sorted.

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