All my friends are suddenly going to church ...

[mclover]

My first child will be going to primary school next year - am I getting this wrong? I'm in two primary catchment areas. School 1 is big, diverse student population, great playground and outdoor space, outstanding ofstead, got a good feel to it. In the 'rougher' side of town.

School 2 is a COE, small, not very diverse, good ofstead and also nice feel to it, posher end of town. Nearly all my friends are desperate to get their kids into the COE and have all started going to the church to get their kids in.

When I ask why, my friends say COE is better, smaller primary schools are better, and the students are better, even though the bigger school has a better ofstead.

Am I doing my DS a disservice by not trying to get him into a COE? WWYD? Please share your experiences and why you chose what you chose.

@pasbeaucoupdegendarme

As a committed churchgoer and a teacher, I it really pisses me off when people start pitching up at church just to get their kids into the church school. (The school is not the one I teach in.) I wouldn’t mind so much if they vaguely pretended to be interested or respectful of my faith, but they treat the service as a coffee morning.

This ^ in spades.

It should be a given that you should have been attending Church for a minimum of 5 years (at least once a month,) before you are allowed to attempt to get your children in.

These are the same type of individuals who take the piss out of Christians/Believers, and mock and deride, but then 'use' the Church for their convenience.

Getting their kids into a better school, having their wedding there, (so they have a 'pretty' background,) and getting their baby Christened. (Feck knows why they want to use have their kids Christened, as most of them don't 'believe' and don't attend Church; only when it suits them, and will benefit them.)

@pasbeaucoupdegendarme

As a committed churchgoer and a teacher, It really pisses me off when people start pitching up at church just to get their kids into the church school. (The school is not the one I teach in.) I wouldn’t mind so much if they vaguely pretended to be interested or respectful of my faith, but they treat the service as a coffee morning.

This ^ in spades.

It should be a given that you should have been attending Church for a minimum of 5 years (at least once a month,) before you are allowed to attempt to get your children into a 'Religious School.'

These are the same type of individuals who take the piss out of Christians/Believers, and mock and deride, but then 'use' the Church for their convenience.

Getting their kids into a better school, having their wedding there, (so they have a 'pretty' background,) and getting their baby Christened. (Feck knows why they want to use have their kids Christened, as most of them don't 'believe' and don't attend Church; only when it suits them, and will benefit them.)

They’re called Sunday morning Christians. It’s a joke, as are most religious types.

It is a tricky one. I didn't have to go to church to get my sons into what I felt was the best school for them but a good friend did (despite being atheist) and I respect her decision and in her shoes can't say that I would not have done the same.

However I honestly would not place too much emphasis on ofsted especially if it was some time ago. Read the report and what it actually says but the "feel" of the school is much more important. Our school is rated as "good" but it's just some really minor issues that meant it isn't outstanding, more to do with record keeping than actual quality of education.

People round here are obsessed with getting their kids into the one local "outstanding school" without really understanding how/if it's better than the others (which it isn't, IMO). House prices around it are crazy

My religious school had more parents faking religion than with genuine religion because there were two nearby failing comprehensives that people wanted to avoid.

Im in london so at my (admittedly middle class) church I see a fair few asian/chinese/etc kids there for school admissions.

All schools should be good and accessible, until they are tou should do whats best for your kid

Have you checked the application process? Will going to church actually help with the application? In my area, that is a long way down the list, catchment, siblings etc are all higher up the list.

CofE schools use church attendance as a middle class filter. You decide what is best for your child.

^^ these sort of stereotypes dont help. The majority of children in faith schools where I live are of Black West African origin, first generation immigrants, no 'middle class' about it.

My DC are in a CofE school because it’s the only primary school in our town. We are not Christian, I’d argue 80% of the school isn’t. The local parish is hardly booming with young families anyway...

I don’t think church attendance matters with CofE. Catholic maybe but not CofE.

My son got in to a Catholic school, by daughter subsequently didn't as I refused to convert just to get her in. I saw loads of people playing the rules just to get their kids in an it just takes the p*s out of those who truly believe it's just wrong.
I my son moved up to a Catholic secondary last year, the sibling rule is better, but my daughter still might not get in unless she is a practicing Catholic for 5 years. I did convert and tried to see if she was up for it but both hate church, I actually like it but despite wanting to keep it up for myself I don't want to be see to be doing it just to get her in, so I have backed off for now so my application to the school will be an honest one, I don't want to force it on my kids, I will pick it up again once she starts secondary school, just for me. If she doesn't get in so be it.

My DS went to the local - rough - school and he and I were very happy with it. Two years in and I had to change his school, so he went to the (further away) middle class school. He didn't like it, I didn't like it, we were both glad to leave 3 years later

My friend just had her daughter christened and then shortly after her first communion. We twigged it was because she obviously wants to go to the good local catholic school.

We wouldn't do it here, but only because I'd probably combust if I went inside a church 😁

Quietcontentment don't worry about what people think, if you want to go to Church (whatever your initial reason for going) then go. Your application will still be honest.

My daughter is going to a c of e school come September, I'm a little apprehensive as it is very churchy but it was either that or a sink school. We live in parish catchment though so didn't need to cheat the system.

I do think it's ridiculous that people start rocking up on a Sunday just to guarantee a place and then never go again.

The rules that reward this may be ridiculous, the people aren't.

There's a state primary near me that can afford to spend £9000 a year per pupil, which I think is somewhere between double and triple the national average. (The extra money comes from an ancient charity.) Unsurprisingly, it's quite a good school. If people can get get an extra several thousand a year spent on each of their children merely by going to church for a couple of years, I'd think that's a fairly rational thing to do. (I wouldn't, because I really dislike the idea of going to church. But I think other people who do are being sensible.)

Religion should have no place in schools or school admissions.

For as long as it does, nothing wrong with parents rocking up to church to gain admission.

**Thertruthisoutwhere

Im in london so at my (admittedly middle class) church I see a fair few asian/chinese/etc kids there for school admissions.

How on earth do you know they are not Christian?

The CofE primaries near me in London only prioritise half the places for Christians (of any recognised variety) now, to get at least a bit of a mix of kids, but the Catholic ones are priority for Catholics only, even non-catholic kids in care coming below any Catholic.

I know people who did start going to church regularly 3 years before school admissions deadlines - most were Christian to start with just wouldn't necessarily have gone to church very often. I understand the CofE is supposed to welcome everyone and take the line that school may be what gets someone in, but they may get converted by what happens in the church.
I only know one woman who admitted to not being Christian yet attending church for school purposes. I did laugh when they still failed to get a place at her desired school on grounds of distance - all the local schools are good, just some of the church ones have more middle class or respectable families (probably fewer white ones than the others, here)

Well one school must be better than the other surely? I can’t imagine they’re just equal

Whilst representation in faith will differ by area, this sounds like a textbook case of 'middle class parents want their children to mix with people just like them'.

Too often when people say faith schools are 'better' what they mean is 'thr school I want is better and part of that is social selection but I don't want to say that'.

Some faith schools in my area take largely from the local community, but those ones tend not to have the middle classes climbing to get in because they are in areas of higher deprivation and the snobbish types who'll fake religion to get into a faith school only seem to want to do it when it means their child only mixes with people like them. Suddenly the claim that faith schools are better disappears.

I get people suddenly wanting to play the system because they want what's best for their kids, but I've no time when they start complaining about faith elements.

Apparently most Outstanding Ofsted inspected schools are now not outstanding at all. Go on your instincts when you visit,

article on this

@Thertruthisoutwhere

What an at best bizarre and at worst racist thing to say. How on Earth do you know the Asian/Chinese etc children are there just for admissions and not because they might actually be Christians?

OP, I wouldn’t put a lot of weight into Ofsted reports. It’s best to look around the school, ask the head/ person giving the tour lots of questions and speak to any parents that have children at the school if you can. I currently teach at an Ofsted outstanding school and if I had children I wouldn’t send them there.

The usual parental hypocrisy, would they be happy to have their children kicked out if they didn't maintain their attendance level?