Medical negligence?

[Pinkstars2501]

Hi, this is inspired by a current thread but don't want to derail it.

I've been going to various GPs since about 2008 (though I suffered since before that) telling them my periods are horrendous and I thought I had endometriosis. I told them my mother and grandma had it (both ended up with early hysterectomies in their 30s), and my symptoms match. In this time they swapped my pills, or told me to not take a break, gave me pain meds that didn't work etc etc. Ended up with implant which stopped all periods and symptoms, so obviously they thought they'd leave it at that. Yet not one referred me for scans. They did do one blood test, but didn't notify me of a repeat being needed (I only found out recently because I've requested my medical notes).

Fast forward to this year and a fab GP who referred my and ended up with a laparoscopy diagnosing stage 3 endo and a frozen pelvis. I've been trying to conceive for two years now and nothing so it's probably related and now I'm due at the fertility clinic.

So my question is, is this medical negligence and would I have a case?
I don't know if I want to actually take anyone to court, as it wouldn't really change the outcome of my health. But I feel like they should have listened when I was in and out of their surgery.

Thanks if you've read all that and have any advice. I hope it makes sense, there's so much I could write about it and it's still not over....

My understanding is that you cant just 'go to court' you have to follow the complaints procedures, then you are at liberty to invoke legal action if you so wish.

What is you hope to achieve, is it an apology or a pay out?

What My Opinion said: work out what your specific complaint is (I suspect not being referred onwards) and complain to the GP surgery. Did you see the same GP a number of times, or different GPs in the same surgery, or different surgeries?

You have been treated accordingly, so not it is not negligent.

If your symptoms went away with the implant , they would have no reason to keep investigating you. The fact that you subsequently got investigated and diagnosed , doesn't mean that the previous doc was negligent.

If it hasn't changed your health outcome then no it's not negligent

Yeah go on sue the NHS take what little money they have and cripple it that little bit more.

Sooner or later there won’t be a NHS so we’ll all have to pay hen they prices will rocket because they will have to cover all the claims when they don’t get the right answer first time.

I think it's possibly my thread you're referring to.

For me, your fertility issues now, may well have been avoided if they had addressed your endo symptoms, so for that, you possibly have a damages case.

I'm no doctor, and that is possibly an arguable point in medicine even - gynae seems to be horrendously subjective in how it's treated.

I wouldn't even know where to start in terms of specialist medical negligence solicitors though - although it's a start that you have your file.

I would be asking myself was it worth the stress?

I started the thread because I feel like GPs are just not held accountable at all and was questioning the rights and wrongs of that, but as you've seen, not one person ever sued, despite horrendous tales of negligence.

You'd want to be one tough cookie to take them on - and I mean mentally. The only cases I've known of have been taken on by the family of the deceased after the fact.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - I've never heard of a case taken by a live person. It's usually after death. Sorry. Hence my thread!

I remember you commenting on my thread am so sorry that your going through all this am not sure how you would go about getting answers from the GP good luck with everything. I know how shit GP’s are I have had countless GP’s telling me about my sky high blood pressure since I was 15 and up until this year no one bothered to do anything about it I now have an enlarged heart muscle caused by my blood pressure that would never of been picked up on if it hadn’t been for a brilliant GP sending me for a heart scan so I agree with you that not all GP’s are good at their job some are really crap. I won’t be able to have any children under my blood pressure is under control and my heart will hopefully sort it’s self out.

Even if there is clear evidence of a consequence of a GP not doing enough to diagnose the system is a nightmare to negotiate. A few years ago my dh developed a hard lump on his tonsil and was exhausted, the GP told him it was nothing and advised to go and stand in the waiting room and ask everyone there who else was tired in a sarcastic way. I am a nurse and knew he was being dismissed, he went to dentist and was referred to a hospital dental department (2 week rule) and subsequently diagnosed with cancer. As we had not believed the GP there was only a delay of about 3 weeks in total, not clinically significant but others would of accepted his word. We arranged to meet with the GP to discuss his approach and hoped for an apology, nothing else. GP refused to recognize he had done anything wrong and was rude again even the practice manager who was facilitating the meeting was obviously astonished with him. We subsequently complained via the gmc procedure, after months of complex form filling and meetings in Manchester the outcome was that the GP had fallen ' slightly below expected standard'. My point is that it is very difficult to take action against a GP .Even when there is clear evidence that they should have done something differently (which as your symptoms resolved with treatment there probably isn't) the system is a nightmare and as a nurse I could make clinical points. There was an incident near me a couple of years ago where a young woman died after developing a clot on her lungs associated with being on the pill, she went to GP with classic symptoms of this yet was told she had a chest infection. This GP was given a wrist slap and some training . My point is it is very difficult to complain about a GP even with definite evidence of negligence so I doubt you would have much luck in this situation.

It's pretty notorious that it can take circa 8/10 years to get a diagnosis. Different professionals approach the likelyhood of endo in different ways. So you've had the pill etc, they use progesterone to try and stop periods, thus the growth of endo. I don't think you'd get very far as it's relatively common, 1 in 10 women thought to have it, although diagnosis can take ages.

I've had endo 16 years (diagnosed) we had given up on our fertility journey and nearly 10 years later we got a surprise pregnancy, even though I was told it would never happen naturally. So all the best with your fertility journey.

The gold standard test is considered to be a lap to have a look around, although I've had endo show up on scans a few times, from choc cysts to actual endo.

I'm sorry you've struggled so long, hopefully they can manage both symptoms and fertility at the same time.

Thankyou, I know there are procedures and stuff, just interested to know what the outcome could be and if anyone had done so before for similar. Just a general wandering really having seen my notes. Tbh no amount of money could make up for the pain I've coped with. But some acknowledgment that I should have been listened to would help. It might also raise a bit of awareness for other women. The amount of people I've spoken to at work/ in my family, who have never heard of Endo is incredible considering it's not exactly rare.

To the poster who jumped on me about suing the NHS. Fuck off. I had been going to the same GP (plus a few locum ones thrown in when my GP was off) since the age of 16 with the same symptoms, he had signed me off work with those symptoms a fair few times, been to my home once to see me crawl down the stairs to see him because I couldn't walk to surgery (and he clearly couldn't be assed to climb my stairs), but actively said they wouldn't do much due to my age. Because for some reason he reckoned a hysterectomy was the cure, it's really not! So tried various pills and countless appointments. And now at 32 after finally having a GP who actually listened, have grade 3 and face the very likely possibility of never having children due to this. Maybe if they'd have done the referral and subsequent laparoscopy after the first few times of me telling them, they'd have saved the NHS a few quid in waste of time appointments, and me a few quid in pointless prescriptions eh? My quality of life for nearly a full week every month for the last 16 years, apart from the few I had an implant, is on the floor. I literally could be mistaken for a labouring woman, with the added bonus of possibly not ever actually being a labouring woman, so excuse me for being angry about that when it could have been avoided.

For what it's worth, it's not like the doctor was working blind to figure out what was wrong with me. I knew, I told them, several times. They just didn't investigate. I moved counties and therefore changed GPs and this final one took less than 4 months from appointment to being on the operating table, because she listened. Just because it's not uncommon for it to take years to diagnose, doesn't mean it's right and shouldn't change.

I didn't mean to cause any offence or ill feeling with this thread, it was just a general wondering I had late at night when I was alone with my thoughts and at the end of the dreaded two week wait of trying to conceive. This disease puts the sufferers through absolute hell and it never ends, it's life long.

You would really need to see a solicitor to get a proper opinion OP. Agree with PPs though that you first port of call would be the NHS’s internal complaints procedure.

The test for medical negligence requires you to show that your doctor behaved in a way that a competent doctor, in the same circumstances, would not have. Their course of action has to be one no reasonably competent doctor would have taken. It doesn’t have to be the best care possible, or even strictly the right care - it just has to be care that isn’t so wrong, no reasonable competent doctor would have given it.

I don’t know whether your circumstances meet this test on the basis of what you have written - you need a personal injury solicitor to tell you that. If the failure to diagnose you contributed to your fertility issues or worsened your condition then you will be able to show harm, but again, this doesn’t mean you have a valid claim unless you can meet the test for negligence.

Worth speaking to a PI solicitor if it’s something you’re seriously considering. Many will do PI claims on a no win no fee basis, but bear in mind that they will take a larger proportion of any pay out than if you fund it upfront yourself.

People moralising about not suing the NHS because it’s ‘crippled’ need to get a grip. For one thing, these claims are entirely dealt with by the NHS’s insurers so the NHS is only on the hook for whatever it’s excess happens to be. For another, people who have been treated negligently and suffered as a result deserve recompense, and shouldn’t be denied this or made to feel guilty just because the NHS is a public service. And finally, it benefits all of us for the NHS to be held accountable for their mistakes, because it encourages a commitment to quality and forces structural changes which help prevent future incidents.

Also, with regards to my symptoms going away. They didn't. Yes I was out of the crippling pain. But my insides are literally stuck together.

Those who mentioned GPs not being held accountable are so right. Especially the lady who's husband had cancer, that's appalling, a reluctant half apology?!
My endo would not have reached this stage if they'd have done a laparoscopy years ago. Fact. They could have cut it out, but now I need a laparotomy to unstick my uterus/bowel/appendix first as they currently can't see any of my reproductive organs.

Thankyou @PanteneProV my thoughts exactly.
I find it hard to articulate in text because I get so worked up when talking about it, it just comes out as a mash up.

But those who say I should speak to a PI solicitor are right. It's hard for anyone to give proper advice on here because for me to lay out all the facts on a 16year timeline would be one long read. Thankyou though for the helpful replies.

I'm actually going through a medical negligence case now so hopefully can share some useful advice. You need to follow the complaints procedure for the GP practice. That is a must. Set out and that you are unhappy and ask specific questions like why were scans not discussed before. Detail any harm you've been caused including psychological distress, marital issues etc. Send a rough summary of your case to a few medical negligence solicitors and see what they say. Ours worked with us early on, checking compliant letters for free. They will want to ascertain a) that procedures or good practice guidelines were broken (it's really helpful to try and find out what the guidelines are for further investigations for your symptoms via the complaints process) and b) they'll look to establish what the harm is. Has it delayed you getting pregnant or damaged your fertility, will you need IVF etc. We are just getting to the legal stage of ours and whilst our case is different (midwife negligence led to near death of our poorly newborn) I actually feel a lot clearer about what happened and why things went wrong having gone through the complaints process.

In regards got he NHS losing money, they have insurance.

My friend lost an eye due to a doctor's incompetence, they missed a brain tumour and she nearly died, even she didn't get anywhere trying to sue them. As someone previously said I think in a lot of cases there needs to have been a death.

I know someone who had an undignosed dvt which left her with a permanent disability who has won her case, but it's taken years and years.

I'd put on a complaint to the surgery if I was you.

As someone previously said I think in a lot of cases there needs to have been a death.

This isn’t quite the case. It’s not really the severity of the consequence that matters (except that it will obviously affect the scale of any payout). If the test for negligence is met, and harm has been suffered as a result, there will be a valid claim even if the harm suffered is much less severe than disability / death.

I expect there is a self-selecting element though - people who have not suffered the most serious kind of harm as a consequence of negligence might not choose to pursue a claim given that it can be a lengthy, expensive process with no guarantee of success.

@PanteneProV

The test to see if there is a medical negligence case is slightly more complex.

You need to prove:

1: A shortcoming in care
2: A physical or psychological harm has occurred
3: A clear chain of events that the deficiency in care caused that harm

You normally fall down on number three - in that its virtually impossible to say what would, or wouldn't have happened if the care had been different at different points along the way.

I'm sorry you have the endometriosis so bad. It's a strange illness where you can have stage 4 and not feel a thing, or have stage 1 and be in agony.

A woman I know had a Grandchild who ended up severely disabled, due to errors when they were born. It took years to get in everything, even though the hospital pretty much accepted liability.

So it's not like being in a clear cut accident, there are so many variables, it does take a very long time and a lot of endurance.

It depends if a no win no fee solicitor will take it on first off, otherwise you'll need a lot of money to spend on everything required.