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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is employment discrimination (shared parental leave)

108 replies

Suckasponge · 10/06/2019 09:59

DH applied for a job last week. Was pipped at the post by another candidate but they were really impressed by his application, interview and what they know of his work (it was an internal role.)

Manager of the team asked for a meeting, which happened today. They said they have pulled strings and want to offer him a slightly different role at the same level as the one he applied for. They have said that the first six months in post are important.

DH already has a shared parental leave application in, which was approved by the organisation for six months off work to care for our baby, due in August. DH would be having August - Feb 2020 off.

In the meeting, the bosses have said they will only offer him this role if he can start immediately. The role hasn't been advertised and seems to have been created just for him. DH declined the role as he is very committed to having the parental leave, even though he would really like to take the move forward and accept.

I have told DH I think he should have sat on the fence and said 'well its all negotiable' until he had a formal job offer, and then said 'actually no, I've changed my mind and want the leave' as I'm pretty sure maternity/paternity leave carries equal(ish?) rights and I thought it was illegal to rescind a job offer due to pregnancy or related leave. DH wanted to be upfront from the beginning, which I respect, but I think it has enabled them to be quite underhand.

I could be completely wrong, do we have any grounds here?

OP posts:
handbaghoarderr · 10/06/2019 12:10

I mean the mother needs maternity leave to recover. Also, I meant to say that the father can't do much in terms of baby, but he can clean and cook.

BogglesGoggles · 10/06/2019 12:12

@handbaghoardrr what? Apart from breastfeeding (which can easily be replaced with formula) there is literally nothing he can’t do. OPs husband is perfectly capable of care for the baby entirely on his own.

handbaghoarderr · 10/06/2019 12:14

@BogglesGoggles, IME, babies want their mother because she is all they have known. That was all I meant.

jennymanara · 10/06/2019 12:16

I would assume OP is not breastfeeding. Because only breastfeeding can take many many hours.

TheFallenMadonna · 10/06/2019 12:17

I think some people are confused about the difference between paternity leave and shared parental leave Hmm

jennymanara · 10/06/2019 12:18

OP so yes the company have acted illegally.
Whether your DH takes it further would be something to think over very carefully. Although it sin't fair, pursuing a discrimination case can be very stressful, would damage his ability for promotion with his current employer and may damage his reputation in the industry as a whole. I have seen this from a union perspective, and it is not something to undertake lightly.

flowery · 10/06/2019 12:19

Is there any particular reason you are asking for employment law advice in AIBU OP, rather than the Employment topic?

In AIBU you get people who haven't got a clue piling in with inaccurate and poor quality advice....

jennymanara · 10/06/2019 12:20

Madonna I was confused by that. I thought OP had meant a specially negotiated time off rather than the shared parental leave. OP and her DH have obviously decided to have 6 months off each.

BollocksToBrexit · 10/06/2019 12:24

IME, babies want their mother because she is all they have known.

The 1950s are that way ->

flowery · 10/06/2019 12:26

" If your husband did what you wanted that would have been disastrous. Not only would it be bad for his employer who would be left in the lurch, it would also have tarnished your husband’s reputation and probably put his employer on alert to get rid of him at the first opportunity. If a similar situation comes up in future do yourselves a favour and act as your husband has acted. Long term success relies on good character."

Words actually fail me. Wanting to exercise a right to shared parental leave without being punished in terms of career development shows a lack of 'good character' now? And puts one's employer 'on alert' to get rid of you?

Welshwabbit · 10/06/2019 12:27

OP as I think you have already worked out, the company cannot subject someone to a detriment because they have taken or seek to take SPL. Making a promotion conditional on not taking SPL is almost certain to be a detriment. This is a good starting point. www.sharedparentalleave.org.uk/employers/employment-protections/

PeoniesarePink · 10/06/2019 12:32

They've said that the first 6 months in post are important.

They are just trying to run a business.

SeaViewBliss · 10/06/2019 12:32

I’m a bit astounded by some of the appalling attitudes to a Dad wanting to take shared parental leave and what Dad’s can/can’t supposedly do. Is it 1950 again?

Mumsnet is full of threads about useless fathers, why is OPs DH being lambasted for doing what they feel is right for their family?

Spam88 · 10/06/2019 12:32

Jesus, some of the attitudes on this thread...

Interesting to read it is unlawful. Obviously instinctively it feels it should be, but I wasn't sure whether protection around mat leave were just based on sex discrimination and therefore the same wouldn't apply to men on SPL.

aprilanne · 10/06/2019 12:33

The fact they actually created a role for your husband is the sticky point here they will just say oh well we looked again and don't need the position and as long as the don't appoint someone for six months it's perfectly legal .good on your hubby for being honest and shame on you for trying to pull a flanker on workers rights
Why are you rushing back to work so soon after birth .I am all for men doing there bit but as I always say to my daughter's in law you do all the hard work before the birth why the heck shouldn't you have all the mat leave

Original poster
Suckasponge · 10/06/2019 12:38

Sorry if I wasn't clear it was within the same (public sector - housing association) company.

Men can't really win here with some people .... DH has wanted a baby all of his life and felt heartbreak at being infertile. We get a miracle baby and he is seen as being underhand for wanting to take a legal period of leave? Dad's are berated on here for not pulling their weight with parenting .... yet we have one very dedicated Dad-to-be who is seen as namby pamby for taking an active role. Gender stereotyping at its very best!

I'm not BF as I don't get a milk supply (PCOS) and I work from home largely, so I'll be in the house (but working!) So here we have a Dad who can't wait to spend time with his newborn (he is a former foster carer too) yet he should have to face a refusal of promotion at work for the privilege? Honestly as other poster's have said, would it was fair in reverse, if you applied for an internal role but got told you could only have it if you relinquished your maternity leave?

OP posts:
SeaViewBliss · 10/06/2019 12:39

Why are you rushing back to work so soon after birth .I am all for men doing there bit but as I always say to my daughter's in law you do all the hard work before the birth why the heck shouldn't you have all the mat leave

I would assume as a functioning adult that OP and her DH have thought of all this and decided what’s best for them. Millions of women go back to work quite soon for many reasons. It doesn’t sound like she is being dragged back to work against her will.

Ilovemypyjamas · 10/06/2019 12:39

Some ridiculously outdated views on this thread. My DH is taking shared parental leave because I am paid four times what he earns and financially this makes more sense for us. Six months for me (at the start, so can recover and spend time with my baby) and six months for him to spend with baby! Worked beautifully for us last time. We are both really looking forward to our time with our new addition.

jennymanara · 10/06/2019 12:42

I think shared parental leave 50.50 can work if you have an easy birth. But lots of women take months to recover. Just splitting leave 50.50 is not equality in many cases. Also depends whether you are breastfeeding or not. and whether your baby cluster feeds for hours or not.

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 10/06/2019 12:42

@Suckasponge We'll be doing the same, if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant. Some attitudes to it are bizarre.

I'm glad you've got the legal position sorted. Best of luck in getting a resolution that suits you all; and congratulations on baby!

RedSkyLastNight · 10/06/2019 12:42

Maybe it's the way that OP has worded it, but I can't see that she has said that the company have refused to give him the new role if he takes parental leave. More that DH has declined it? All they asked was that he needed to be able to start immediately - which there doesn't seem to be any issue with him doing?

Sparklesocks · 10/06/2019 12:50

That’s interesting, I didn’t realise it was a form of discrimination and am interested to learn. Good luck op and keep us updated.

Oh and ignore the pearl clutchers wetting their pants with horror re shared parental leave. They know nowt.

SoHotADragonRetired · 10/06/2019 12:57

I think shared parental leave 50.50 can work if you have an easy birth. But lots of women take months to recover. Just splitting leave 50.50 is not equality in many cases. Also depends whether you are breastfeeding or not. and whether your baby cluster feeds for hours or not

Well, we aren't discussing whether 50:50 shared parental leave "can work", are we? (Spoiler: it can!) We're discussing whether the OP's DH's employer is discriminating against him in making a promotion contingent on him not taking leave, when the OP and her DH have already found that a 50:50 split works for them.

Fucksake, women in many countries get three months leave max with no option of a shared year, other women choose to go back at 6mo without sharing leave, and people are dragging up some positively medieval attitudes about going back to work after 6 months being "so soon". Know your place, OP! Make babies and take the career hit! Any man who desires to take time off to care for his own precious, long awaited child is an object of great suspicion, and has to suck up any illegal discrimination resulting from it!

CatsAndKittensWearingMittens · 10/06/2019 13:03

Fuck me, what a depressing thread. Either we have travelled back in time or some people are just really very stupid blinkered twats Hmm

Do people really have such low expectations of the fathers' of their own DC? Why exactly? I expected my DH to absolutely be an equal parent and equally capable of parenting as I am. FWIW I went back to work after six weeks (long before a years leave was usual though!) and DH was a SAHD from that point. No problems at all, if I thought he wasn't capable or just as entitled to be a parent as I was, I wouldn't have had DC with him!

It's also clear to see why so many women experience discrimination in the workplace with some of these attitudes to parental leave.

This is exactly why the default position in our society is still that childcare and all responsibility for DC is "womens' work". The sooner we assume responsibility should be shared the better it will be for all of us.

Jesus. It is actually really depressing.

SmilingThroughIt · 10/06/2019 13:07

What does your dh actually say about it. Is he happy with what's happened?

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