To expect some help with bipolar, alcoholic DSS

[Notnamed]

I have posted this in 'alcohol support' but no one around to advise. Be gentle, crisis at this end, posting for traffic.

NC'd

DP is enroute (3 hours away) to try and help his son.

DSS is 33, diagnosed 18 months ago with bipolar and is an alcoholic.
This time DSS has drank for 10 days (stopped his BP med's to be able to do so)
Has been out of contact ( couple of days at a time) for the last 10 days.
Has talked about killing himself.
Has injuries because he has fallen.
On Friday he took himself to A&E, they gave him med's for the withdrawal from alcohol. He continued to drink Saturday and again talked of killing himself.
We called 111 and they sent an ambulance, escalated to an emergency because he had head injuries. They took him to hospital, he refused to go inside and went home.
He messaged this morning to say he was hallucinating through withdrawal.

His DM and DB are there now but can't control his violence. DP is on his way.
None of his family can continue to miss work to stay with him long term while he sobers. No assessments can be made because he is drunk.

This happens every two to three weeks, same cycle.

DSS has moved out from his wife and DC's. Lives alone, will lose his job, his flat and will be homeless?
His DM today was shocked to find his flat is a disgrace, burned carpets, 20 empty bottles of vodka, same for beer and cider.

This can't carry on. He has been in units for MH but signs himself out. His family don't know what to do next.

We have read information and understand 'enabling' and know about AA ( which he goes to sometimes or so he tells us, though so many lies. We know that he has to want to be sober and that we can't do it for him.

He lies, he is expectant about money, he is horrid to this he loves. His DF and DM are decent professional people. His DM has had alcohol issues herself.

He is losing everything.

Sorry for the ramblings. We are at a loss and scared for his safety.

No sure what happens next.

I'm so sorry you're all going through this. The only hope for him would be involuntary commitment to a psychiatric facility but that only lasts for a limited time and he has to want to change. The best thing would be giving him no money no help with food or shelter-he has to hit rock bottom with no resources before he can change if he wants to change.Good luck

As above, let him get on with it. Once he realises he's hit rock bottom, he might want to change.

Thanks both, we know that in theory. In practice it is something else.

He rings drunk threatening to kill himself. It is the nuances of it...at the moment we say ' we're not prepared to talk to you whilst you are drunk' - we know there isn't any point and he is foul...put the phone down then worry ourselves sick...have we been too harsh? Should we drive to him? What if he does kill himself? What if he feels unloved?

It must be heartbreaking to have those phone conversations , but he's a grown man (who sounds very manipulative) and seemingly hell bent on taking the path to self destruction. If he won't accept the help he needs, then unfortunately there's nothing you can do. I think for your own sanity, you all need to step back. I hope you're getting support from Al Anon or something similar.

As someone with bipolar I say do not cut him off, no he won’t learn and he needs support around him. If I’d had no support I would have 100% killed myself by now. Only 18 months in his meds won’t be stable yet anyway it’s taken me 6 years. Please don’t give up on him

Not even 18 months on his med's as he stops taking them every time he wants to drink.

With apologies to the pp who walks the path.
You could have been writing about my DB. He has threatened to kill himself so often it is water off a duck's back for me now. I can give no more than I have and he has had it all. There is no support for me to support him and I will not be his emotional, financial, psychological or literal punching bag anymore. He won't stay on meds and drinks so much they are redundant anyway. I do feel for you, there appears to be no answer, but I have just stopped giving a shit really- I listen and try to be supportive but then it all goes pearshaped and he expects me to take whatever he throws at me. All I can say is, give no more than you can afford to lose.

DP has arrived, police have been called and have sent the ambulance. Crew are 'showering' him before taking him to the hospital. Gross.

He is being really abusive. His hallucinations about large spiders and wires electrocuting him have stopped.

He went to hospital on Friday and came home. He was taken again yesterday and didn't go in.

I hope he stays in hospital. How can we be there for him. We all have working lives, we live 3 hours away. Musing over whether jobs should be put before the life of your child, what if we take time off to look after him and lose ours and the 'what ifs' if we walk away.

He stayed with his DM during half term and then lied about having to go home early for a training event. Of course it didn't exist. He's been drunk ever since.

Have you accessed Al-Anon for support and advice for family?

Mac, that made me cry, so sorry for you.

Where is the help? Loads of campaigns, loads of #MH - but where are the services people need to really help them.

I know, he has to want it...how does he get to that in this state. He's not even managed to stay sober for his baby. Can't even manage weekly contact.

The cycle of MH, drink, feeling shit about himself, down, drink, feel even more shit, lose his wife and kids, lose his job, lose his flat, loads of debts, feel shit, drink, and REPEAT!

All due respect his threats of suicide are manipulation to obtain money or food or shelter to facilitate his addiction to alcohol not a cry for help because his medication levels are subtherapeutic-his stopping them to drink is proof he is aware enough how to function. He has to stop his appetite for destruction via alcohol before the bipolar can be treated effectively

So sorry OP. I am not able to advise but feel for you all.

Ekgems you sound knowledgeable. I suppose we 'risk assess' from a distance. He threatens suicide and we don't react. He hasn't made any real attempts. There is always that nagging doubt though. What if we make the wrong call, that can't ever be put right.

My DP has had to go to him tonight as he was worried about his EXW safety and his DS's. It felt unsafe. DS is out of control and can't stop drinking. DP was worried that you woukd just drink himself to death or set the flat alight.

He uses bipolar as an excuse..is it? Which comes first..he is bipolar as a symptom of being an alcoholic, the other way around or not connected?

We keep being told he needs to get to rock bottom, he's definitely on his way. My DP won't be supporting him financially tho has in the past. All we can see is him living on the streets without any of us. Will that be rock bottom enough....and if it is why are there so many alcoholic people living homeless?...it might be rock bottom but it hasn't stopped them.

I'm sorry OP. There's very little help available if he wants it, and nothing at all if he doesnt. Hell probably end up on the street and, if so, will probably die there. There's little you can do to stop the slide, although you can slow it down at the expense of your own happiness and finances.

We are in a very similar position with my brother at the moment (drugs not alcohol). In fact I'm expecting a call tomorrow to tell me if he's in prison for breaking the conditions of a restraining order twice in two weeks. If he is, he'll loose his hostel place that we fought so hard for him to get.

Sometimes Im angry with him but I could also just cry. Hes not mentally capable of making good decisions any more, too much addiction and fucked up psycological problems.

Shit, isnt it?

He has two beautiful LO's, why is that not enough? How can he lie about a work meeting and not turn up to see them, preferring to be drunk.

Because he's an alcoholic. Alcohol is the 1 big thing in his life. Everything else - kids, wife, home, job, family, friends, health, wealth, life itself - come second. That's what addiction is.

If his beautiful LOs aren't enough. And his df driving down to rescue him from his own mess again isn't enough. And the terrifying hallucinations aren't enough. And the medical advice and support isn't enough. And AA ... etc etc
do you think that anything anybody could do or say would ever be enough? There IS nothing that anyone can do unless he and he alone wants to stop drinking enough.

I'm afraid I'd advise you and your dp to detach from him to protect yourselves from the damage he is doing to everyone and everything around him.

Does detach mean no contact...nothing?

We had thought about moving him closer, not to live with us, just more accessible for when it goes pear shaped, more convenient for us to get to him, no 6 hour round trips or days worrying when we can't take time off to get to him. He can't work here though, he's far too unreliable and too many connections with our professions.

My DP normally a really nice guy, is just about at the stage of no contact. He can't confess this at work, it just wouldn't sit well if he needed to share to be able to take time off.

He won't watch everyone be destroyed by this.
I'm quite strong and more detached (sometimes) but then cave in and cry. We use the well trodden (with 5 year olds!) "we love you very much, we dislike this behaviour" - does that work with a man of 33?

We wondered about " please do not contact us again until you are sober and able to speak coherently".

Every time the phone rings, every time it buzzes as a text comes in; that sick feeling is excruciating.

Unfortunately I have a sibling with bpd and I also work in an acute care hospital and in the past at a psychiatric facility. The bipolar diagnosis is genetic (as my mother is also. )The addiction aspect is interwound with personality,genetics and family background (nature vs nurture.) It's hell when a family member goes off their treatment and self medicates with alcohol or drugs or food or sex

I think the key to detaching is to move out of rescue mode and into nonchalance. As in we can chat/meet/ have you to lunch when you are sober. Any calls made in drink, phone goes down. If he threatens suicide ring 999, dont run to him.

I've lived this life with my ex, mostly as OP describes.

As far as getting help and support, mist NHS trusts will require that he gets dry before they will treat the bi-polar.

His first step needs to be seeing his GP and accessing rehab, once he's dry then the treatment if the bi-polar disorder can start.

What you've already discovered is that because he has a binary problem, then the NHS us very reluctant to treat it. A lot if what you have described was used by my ex to cover up the drinking and that has to stop. The spiders up the wall is a common excuse used by alcoholics to deflect from the drinking to mental health. Pretty much the same with self harm.

it's all on him to take charge of his issues and work hard to seek help.

Your pretty much doing the right thing by detaching, it's a horrible thing to learn but you gave to harden your attitude to him and help your DP to do the same.

In many ways responding to an alcoholic helps to enable them and keep them in denial as well as helping them to minimise what they are doing.

It is so difficult and heartbreaking what you are living through The anger and frustration you'll be experiencing are difficult to manage and finally all the emotional manipulation your experience every time this happens is unbelievably difficult for people to understand.

Find a support group, al-anon, adaction family and carers as a couple if examples, being able to talk it through with people who also experience this is a big help.

This could be my son. Hes 33 and back home with us. He is highly intelligent, getting a degree at 19, and starting his PhD soon after.
It's easy for people to say step back or cut your dss off...yes, he needs to want to stop drinking, but he is self medicating and in hell. He may not show it but he needs his family.
My son wants to die, he drinks , I think to take the anguish away, but obviously it doesn't help in the long run.
My sons been sectioned, he was starving himself, he was under mh, but they let him down massively.
We did the standing back a few years back, he went into, supposedly? Supported housing and then went missing for 2 years. A long story, but they were the worst years of our life, nothing could match that, So to have him home is a blessing and if that's enabling him, then so be it.
Mental Health are crap, totally and privately, nothing can be done as hes not deemed dangerous to himself or others, he knows what to say to them, so atm we are in total limbo, but we do know where he is.
If you were to walk away and something happens, you will never get over it, I promise.
If nearly happened to us.
I really hope things turn round for you dss.

Everyone is being so lovely, thank you.
No information from my DP yet. He's still there with him at the hospital. Least he has gone in this time.

It is so hard to detach, the hardest part is when he is in the throws of a binge, because that is when we think he is unsafe and we need to be in touch more.

We talked about no contact. We were ringing him everyday just to try and keep him dry. When he stops answering his phone we know he's drinking. Then we worry. If we weren't in touch at all we just wouldn't know if he was sober or not. Would that be less of a worry?

Lolly if something happens, you will never get over it whether you walk away or not.

Sorry lolly, so sorry. What a mess, this is so hard.

I don't think my DP or his EXW could live with him. My DP is worried about my safety and that of his EXW. He is disgusting, abusive and violent when drunk.

The most we came up with today was my DP moves out from me and rents something with his DS near to here, thinking he can be there for his DS.
Then we thought of real life...my DP works long hours, he's out of the house 12 hours at a time, he can't be there all of the time. Neither of us can be associated with DS professionally or have his behaviors known locally. And at the bottom of us we know that we can try everything possible but if he doesn't want to address this we can't do it for him.

DS needs to at least break the cycle though. He can't make any decisions in this state.