AIBU (Chernobyl) to wonder why they didn't euthanise those men dying from ARS

[DuploTower]

Just that basically... has anyone wondered the same? That they couldn't even administer morphine to those in unimaginable pain. They seemed happy enough to put a bullet in everyone else.

Obviously I don't mean doing this if the men didn't want it, but I feel it ought to have been offered...

Am I being totally unreasonable? I'm more asking if anyone here has more background in soviet culture than me and can offer some insight or thoughts.

They were kept alive to observe the effects of radiation as nothing as severe had ever happened before. Absolutely awful.

Do you wonder the same about why we force people with cancer to die horrific, painful, traumatic deaths against their wishes?

I know I do.

I also think there is an ideological difference between euthanasia and execution. In some people’s heads it’s ok to shoot a “traitor”, but the sick must be protected?
(Not pro execution, btw!)

This.

There are also the fundamental ideological ethical considerations of beneficence (do good for your patient) and non-maleficence (do no harm) to consider. Health care professionals strive to achieve these ideals for their patients. I can’t believe that the doctors and nurses in 1980s soviet Ukraine would have been thinking any differently with regards to these ethical principles to those of us who work in health care today. Euthanasia, unless it is already embedded in a nation's culture would have been completely unthinkable for the staff who were assigned these patients. I would like to imagine they were trying everything they could possibly think of to provide the best palliative care for those poor men, but assuming their lack of understanding or experience treating patients with end stage acute radiation syndrome would have been at a complete loss at how to manage their symptoms. The ethical and practical considerations would have been far too great, possibly even more so existing within the behemoth of Russian communism, given the rapidity of death following exposure to the radiation.

Does anyone know if euthanasia has ever existed within Russian healthcare at any time?

I wondered the same thing. So much talk throughout of people getting shot for this and that and yet no one discussing the option of shooting those suffering horrendous deaths.

But yes agree with the above comment about death through cancer. People seem to have this idea that end of life care in this country is great and people drift off in some morphine induced sleep. I have watched 3 close relatives die from cancer - one in March just gone- and their ends were all horrific. I won’t go into details here but I know if there was the option to end their suffering earlier they all would have taken it.

Factually it is miles off what actually happened.

Actually, the writer tried to make it as close as possible to the truth. There were things that had to be changed for dramatic purposes (the character of Ulyana Khomyuk was a composite for all the other scientists who assisted Legasov, for instance, and the trial at the end happened, but was very different to that portrayed, etc), but if you read the book 'Chernobyl Prayer', which is composed of interviews with survivors you see that Craig Mazin tried to keep the story as authentic as he could, while still contructing a comprehensible narrative to TV viewers.

Actually it is a long way off reality.
No miners worked naked, the head of the miners was a former miner himself and they won't threatened with guns. The size of the potential explosion was exaggerated. Legato was very much a party man and not the rebel figure he is portrayed as. No helicopter crashed due to the radiation, the crash was months later and was unrelated to the radiation. There are many more instances. So ad I said, it is a drama not a documentary.

They were talking about this on This Morning today,very interesting as they said it was very similar to what happened,they talked about the helicopter scene which did happen but later on. Very interesting as they talked about tours you can take round the now and how people went back to live there even though they weren't supposed to. Worth watching on catch up.

What was the tv series called? I really wanna watch it

It's such a shame if things were made up. What's the point ? Having one lady be a composite of several scientists is fine but making up that workers were naked (why??) or that a helicopter crashed etc etc serves no purpose.

Amazingly it's called Chernobyl

If you want to watch it it is called Chernobyl.

Hilda40 .

I haven’t seen it but... to observe the effects or radiation?

Like if Titanic had real Rose😁...

Obviously there will be parts changed. We are all spoiled AF when it comes to TV and without some changes, people wouldn't give a fuck. It would also be a documentary. Not many people want to watch a documentary unless Attenborough is in it🤷‍♀️
Made up character to combine all real ones is fully understandable.

However, everyone has to admit that it achieved what it set out to.
Great drama series.
Amazing feedback.
Made people think about the tragedy and research things. When was the last time you were this inspired to google something? I never knew about Welsh lamb and radioactivity before (didn't grow up here).
It's really impressive effect the series had.
I still wonder how they managed to cast such a great cast and them being look alikes with some real character.

And to add. They did get lots of things right and lots are factual. But again. Can't have it all perfect

I haven't seen it yet, so don't know who you are referring to and what radiation doses they received, but there is a level of radiation dose that makes people very ill, but can be survivable.

Your chances can literally be 50/50 and a lot of it is down to chance, good medical care and avoiding infection. So that could be it.

Also, as others have said, there wasn't a lot known about treatment of radiation sickness so it was an opportunity to increase knowledge that may also have increased the chance of survival of the victims.

Also, like a PP has said, medical ethics means that we can't 'just let people die' or euthanise them, even when we know they have little or no chance of survival.

Gripped by this show. Dyatlov recovered didn't he, so maybe they really did not know what would happen. Amazingly, the story about believing the readings on the dosimeters was real.

@BarbaraofSevillle not with this radiation levels some were exposed to. 15000 roetgens if I remember correctly.
Watch it. It's a great mini series.

I listened to all five hours of the companion podcast yesterday (The Chernobyl Podcast) and in it the writer explains exactly which bits he changed, and why (and how reluctantly). His premise was that in order to do the people who suffered justice, he wanted to avoid and sensationalising or glamorising of the details, because they were so horrific on their own without embellishment.

It's well worth a listen - he talks about Legasov initially being a fervent Party man, and how he becomes disillusioned as he realises the extent of the systemic deception at higher levels.

I second the recommendation to read
Chernobyl Prayer by Aleksievitch. As haunting as the mini series, but factually accurate. I am surprised that she wasn't credited by HBO, there seem to be quite a few borrowings.

Probably wanted to study the effectsithad on them. Depressing but true.

I never got over what they did with this story www.unbelievable-facts.com/2016/12/hisashi-ouchi.html

Honestly depressing.

@silvercuckoo aren't the voices from Chernobyl collection of interviews? That would explain the borrowing

Involuntary Euthanasia - that's called murder

Exactly, the divers survived despite what they did. Amazing show and I really recommend the podcast to anyone who's thinking about it.

This isn't related to the original question but where can I watch the series? Is it on Netflix?

I have virgin media but when I searched for it nothing came up!