To ask them to use the other stairs?

[ThrowAwayQP]

I’m going to be honest, I didn’t think I was bu; but I’m willing to be told if that’s the case.

So I’ve recently started a part time job cleaning for a bit of extra income. It’s in a large corporate environment. The building is quite large with only two stair cases; one at either end; but to be honest I think walking between them would only take five minutes at most.

The other day I was mopping one of the stair cases and two of the department managers came walking down it. They were both looking at a laptop and deep in conversation, so I assumed they just hadn’t seen the wet floor sign. I asked them if in future they could use the other stairs this one was being cleaned and they both mumbled a “sorry” before carrying on.

The next morning one of the senior team pulled me aside and told me he was “sure experienced staff could decide if they wanted to take the risk of walking down wet stairs.”

I was quite shocked at being ‘put in my place’ so to speak? Was I actually being unreasonable? All I asked was them not to walk where I was currently mopping!

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis

And yes, she can just clean the stairs again the next day. That’s her job. In a working environment where things are in use everyday, they are not being cleaned to stay shiny and bright. They are being cleaned to keep the dirt at a manageable level. They will never stay clean. She will mop, they will get scuffed yo very quickly and she will mop again, and it continues. If she didn’t mop at all then the stairs would be disgusting. It’s not about getting something clean and then turning it into a shrine never to be touched; it’s maintaining an acceptable level. When your job is maintenance, you just do it again and again and again, and people will use it again and again and again. That’s her job.

Yes, and don't they get told that by society at every turn?

Do you think that is an easy situation to live in? Being told you are basically worthless? Besides having to live on a shitty wage.

I treat my cleaner like the magic-working goddess she is, thank you very much! And she doesn't have a complex about her work. She takes pride in doing a lovely job.

My general point is that the sneering and resentment towards people whose time OP was happy to waste is one of the worst things about senior management. I'm not denying some people look down on cleaners (in fact, the junior staff in our office do, actually). I'm saying that sneering at senior managers is not part of the answer.

I don't think billable hours can be overlooked here.

In my old job senior execs billed their time at £300 an hour. A ten minute detour would cost the company £50.

If they had to take the ten minute detour every working day when the stairs were closed, that would cost the company £13,050 a year per staff member. If there were two staff members (as in this example) that would cost the business £26,100 every year, just for those two staff members. Etc etc.

I think very few businesses would be prepared to put up with that cost. And many companies e.g. lawyers bill far more than £300 an hour in six minute increments.

Also - to me - talking with a laptop open suggests heading to a meeting. It would be seriously looked down upon if I was ten minutes late for a meeting. So yes - they may not have been able to detour.

Of course cleaners are important. Of course everyone should be treated with respect whatever their level. But it sounds like OP just decided to shut the stairs even though it's not company policy.

If I was headed to a meeting and the stairs were being cleaned I'd apologise and try to do as little damage as possible, but I wouldn't take the long route.

I'd appreciate a warning that the stairs were slippy, but I wouldn't appreciate being asked to go elsewhere. Doubly so if I was working late.

That said if they did complain that seems like overkill. Depends a bit on how OP phrased the request though.

Seems an utterly bonkers situation to me that shouldn't be difficult to resolve - cleaning provider and client company need to agree best time/frequency for cleaning stairs with minimal disruption and if necessary, advise their employees accordingly. For this to be an issue/inconvenience, maybe the stairs are being cleaned more often than they need to be. People should not be walking down stairs which are being mopped - ludicrous to suggest that 5 minutes is a deal breaker (anybody who has a meeting can leave 5 minutes earlier). Is the client company happy to prioritise the very minor inconvenience of a few employees over possible negligence claims?

*So if you had just mopped the floor, you'd be cool with someone walking all over it?

Well, she can just clean it again, right? No big deal.*

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis well, yeah, if I was a cleaner in an office is that not their job? To 'just clean it again' the next day or whatever? I could understand your argument if OP had been mopping the floor at home and her DH had deliberately walked on it expecting her to just do it again. But in a workplace where it's specifically your job to clean each day, yeah I do think it's okay and logical for people to walk on the floor after mopping, with the expectation that it will be cleaned again imminently enough to stop it becoming a wreck.

YABU

Do you think that is an easy situation to live in? Being told you are basically worthless? Besides having to live on a shitty wage

In all of the organisations I've worked in the cleaners have been treated with a lot of respect and gratitude, both in terms of daily politeness and presents at significant times like at Christmas.

YABU. You should have simply given them a heads up that the floor was wet if you thought they hadn’t spotted the wet floor signs.

@MorondelaFrontera

No cleaner would tell us to stay away from the kitchen when they are cleaning it either - they tend to apologise to be in the way, staff apologises back to be in their way and everybody is happy

Why the fuck should a cleaner apologise for cleaning the kitchen? Seriously get over yourself. YOU should apologise for disturbing him/her!

YABU.

Why the fuck should a cleaner apologise for cleaning the kitchen?

Have you ever been to Britain??

The next morning one of the senior team pulled me aside and told me he was “sure experienced staff could decide if they wanted to take the risk of walking down wet stairs.”

I'd love to know whether the corporation is happy to fund the possible consequence of payouts/time off work so that employees can choose, with impunity, to use stairs in the process of being mopped. Or whether employees using the wet stairs would be happy to agree not to make a claim and forego sick pay in the event of an accident. All for the sake of 5 or 10 minutes saved.

Of course YABU. If areas are closed when they are being cleaned then put a sign up, if there not closed then people can use them. 10 minutes is plenty if it makes you miss your train, late for a meeting etc.

not a word of thank's is said just a pittance of a wage,

I think that's an assumption (though likely true of most places) which might not even apply here. I thank our cleaners every morning despite the fact that they are always late, arrive after I've already started for the day, talk on their phones the whole time and do a shit job. They also ignore me when I say thanks and just walk out.

Life isn't black and white. You can't extrapolate from the OP that the men in question look down on her for being a cleaner simply because they walked down the stairs. It might be true, it might not, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. I would have done the same because it's madnes to go 10mins out of the way.

YABU - there is no policy that states the stairs are shut when being cleaned so they are under no obligation to use the other stairs. It would be nice if they did, but a 10 minute detour may not be possible for them. If their office is right by "your" staircase and they are going to a meeting in a room near the bottom of that staircase, why would they go hugely out of their way just to avoid the stairs that are most convenient and not actually closed?

This reminds me of when I was at school - it had originally been an old mansion house that had been converted so had a grand front staircase. Only the teachers and 6th form could use those stairs, the rest of us had to use the old servants staircase at the end of the hall, which was fine except when you had a class in a room at the top of the stairs and your next class was at the bottom of the stairs. Instead of taking 20 seconds to go down the main stairs you had to take a 5 minute detour to the narrower back stairs that everyone was using, fight through the crowds and go all the way around, and invariably ended up being late to the second class.

Sorry if this has been suggested but when I worked in a busy hospital they washed one side of the stairs going up and one side going back down. This left one side free for use and dry as they also used a dry mop after cleaning.

Antigon
If you had read my sentence, you would have seen that people actually do.

People are normal and civilised in my world, I don't live on MN.

Why the fuck should a cleaner apologise for cleaning the kitchen?
because normal people apologise for being in other people's way, no one feeling superior to anyone. You should try it, it works well for us.

@MorondelaFrontera

because normal people apologise for being in other people's way, no one feeling superior to anyone. You should try it, it works well for us.

Re-read your post Moron. You EXPECT the cleaner to apologise for being in the kitchen cleaning up after you and ONLY THEN do you deign to apologise. You clearly do feel superior to her. See my ost above for the CORRECT way to behave when a cleaner is cleaning.

Why don't YOU enter the kitchen and apologise for getting in her way? She was there first!

FFS some people are entitled. Disgusting.

I don't think a cleaner needs to apologise for anything BUT in most working situations it's completely unmanageable to block off a staircase and expect everyone to take a 10 minute detour in the middle of the working day. I think OP should approach her managers and suggest the staircase gets cleaned after normal working hours.

Op i am a site and facilities manager in charge of a cleaning and maintenance team in a public building and i do not think you were Unreasonable at all. They are obviously idiots who think they are better than you.
I have had a similar complaint once where a manager complained about a cleaner when she asked them to not walk over her clean floor with dirty shoe for the 3rd time in half an hour. (Building closed to he public only a few staff left in) my response was along the lines of
Me " how would you feel if i walked into your office an turned on the hoover during a conference call?"
Him: well i would report you. You don't hoover the offices whilst we are trying to do important work.
Me: well the cleaner is trying to do important work too. And you have walked over her floor 3 times. Meaning she has had to clean it 3 times. That is very counter productive. She now does not have time to clean another area unless i pay her overtime. For her to work overtime means i have to stay aswell and i expect to be paid too, so your 30 second short cut will now cost the company £35 in extra cleaning time.
Him: well my time is important
Me; so is the cleaners. And mine. We both have families to go home to and do not appreciate having to stay late 3 or 4 times a week because you keep walking through areas that are being cleaned. Then i get asked to justify all the extra hours i put through to payroll. Would you like me to explain to hr and payroll that you keep walking through and contaminating areas meaning they have to be cleaned twice? Or would you like us to clean during your working hours where you would have to put up with the inconvenience of us hoovering during your conference calls? You can't have it both ways. Please either be considerate and walk around or when i do my pay run at the end of the month i will put your department as the reason as to why i have gone over my budget yet again.

The next 2 weeks the twit purposely walked through clean areas several times. When i put my pay run in i named him as the reason for extra time taken. I worked back 6 months and realised he had cost the company £800 in extra time. Hr and payroll were not happy. He was spoken to by senior management and told to apologise to the cleaner. He didn't walk through areas that were being cleaned again
The point is everyone's time is important and your little short cut may make you more productive but it maybe fucking someone else over completely and having a knock on effect through the company. Just because you are a "professional" you are no more important than the cleaners.

Re-read your post Moron. You EXPECT

more accurately, you are projecting. It's not my fault if you are bitter.

Believe it or not, I used to work as a cleaner when I first arrived in this country. I don't like the job because the actual cleaning bit is not something I want to do, never had a problem with attitude. Most people are actually quite normal and civilised. I don't have a chip on my shoulder so I didn't feel inferior either, it's just a job.

Why don't YOU enter the kitchen and apologise for getting in her way? She was there first!

Yep.

If a cleaner is cleaning the kitchen and you then want to make a coffee, you are in the cleaner's way not the other way around.

Why the fuck should a cleaner apologise for cleaning the kitchen?

Have you ever been to Britain??

True, this cleaners apology would just be one in the long list of unnecessary apologies British people like to give. Like saying "sorry" when someone bumps into you.