To ask what people consider rich....

[Imoen]

I'm possibly going to be flamed but Im genuinely curious. I keep reading on thread about its ok for the "rich" or the rich are getting richer etc....

I've also had several conversations with friends/family and often the throw away comment is "its ok for you, you're rich".

Thing is, I don't think we are. To me rich is not having to worry about working again.

WE both have very very good salaries which I'm grateful for an I know we're lucky (me 90K, him 60K) and we have a mortgage on a 4 bed house worth 280K. (130K left to pay).

But I would not say we are "rich".

Lots of people on this thread have stated what they or they partner earns Nuno.

Someone asked why it has to be equal . . .

I am not expecting nor would I want incomes to be exactly equal but the levels of inequality, i.e. the gap we have between lowest and highest earners in the UK is growing and causing lots of problems. Countries with less inequality are happier and healthier, loads of research shows it. (see www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/the-spirit-level for some of it).

The question that I ask, is why does a partner of a big 4 firm deserve to earn over 16 times more than the average teacher and even 5 times more than the average head teacher . . . is what they do more valuable and meaningful?

OP, if I were in your situation I would definitely consider myself rich. Your salaries are many more times ours, you also have a house, we only rent as cannot afford to buy. Rich to me is being comfortably off, to have your own nice house, being able to afford what food you want, being able to eat out, to have the type of holidays you want, etc. Compared to you we are poor, but I don't consider myself poor, I'm grateful for what I have. Poor is living in some third-world country, having to go down sewers to look for discarded money.

Yes, fewer people can do those things so we in society decide to pay them more.
The gap is not too big. Once tax at over 50% for some better off people is taken account of and state benefits at the bottom end for the less well off it is about 1 - 5 difference.

www.ft.com/content/505fc7ba-7e4b-11e9-81d2-f785092ab560

@breadwidow but you could say that about ANY job, why does a head teacher get paid more than a tesco employee on the checkout?? Is their job more valuable and meaningful??🤷‍♀️

Combined income of over £170k. No mortgage and no children. Yes we are very lucky and I am grateful every day. Early 40s. We work bloody hard though....

Well done.

Lots of people work hard.

We work bloody hard though....
This attitude drives me insane. Lots of people work hard but they don’t all get well paid for it. The amount you earn has nothing to do with how hard you work and everything to do with you being lucky enough to score a highly paid job. DH’s boss swans in at 10am, takes 2hr lunches and regularly disappears for skiing trips, and he gets paid a hell of a lot more than DH who works 12hr days.

The amount you earn has nothing to do with how hard you work and everything to do with you being lucky enough to score a highly paid job.

it has nothing to do with luck.

People could say the same about me, I might turn up at 10, disappear to have my hair done, take half day to go to sports day this week but that's one of the perks of the job. They don't see when I am working until 2am because of the time difference, when I spend the Sunday working because my clients offices are open that day. I have to justify the results of my team, so yes, I am paid more.
I work more, and most higher level people do. It's a different role though! nothing to do with luck.

@Youngandfree exactly, i used the teacher example as I have a rough idea about what they earn and know is a job lots of people recognise (I am not a teacher) . . . I guess there is more parity in the educational levels of teachers and accountants and the amount of training the job requires compared to teachers and tesco check out staff though. Basically, I do not think any job deserves £500k pa

Basically, I do not think any job deserves £500k pa

what about people who bring millions in revenue to their company? How much should they be paid for that? How much should the competitor offer to poach them? Shall we cap salaries?

You do know what happens when you cap commission in sales roles don't you? People either leave, or pretty much stop working when they reach the cap - usually both.

Not paying some job enough doesn't mean others are paid too much.

So you think the kind of salaries premier league footballers command is OK?

When I lived in Eastern Europe in 1997 my neighbours thought I was rich, although I'd have got more money on Jobseeker's Allowance here at the time and could barely afford the flight home. It is all relative. I certainly don't consider myself rich now, we earn about 50k between us, mortgage on the cheapest 2 bedroomed house, in our area, not London. Have cheap European holidays with family, 2nd hand car, never go to the hairdressers etc.

I think 300k a week is a completely different world! But the clubs make so much money out of their players, that's what they are worth. Ultimately, they are the ones on the pitch, so they should get most of the rewards, at least a good chunk of it.

Same way an actor can be paid literally a small fortune.

I don't believe in capping people's earning, no. It's the worst possible thing anyone can do.

Putting more value on some public roles and paying them more would be good too, but the 2 are not in contradiction with each other.

They don't see when I am working until 2am because of the time difference
If we’re basing it off hours then I dispute that one 80hr a week job is harder and therefore worth more money than another 80hr a week job. You’re just lucky if your 80hrs pays more than someone else’s 80hrs. Some of the people who earn min wage work the absolute hardest of all.

I am not a communist and have no problems with lots of people earning more or less than I do.

I charge £360 per hour plus VAT - that is what I charge. I also have a lot of expenses and costs so that is not my profit and then thes tate takes about half intax too but it is still a fair bit even for someone who has worked full time for 35 years without a break even for babies (I took 2 weeks annual leave and always worked full time). It paid off. So am I worth that?

China tried during the cultural revolution not only to pay doctors and bus drivers the same but to force the educated out into the country just to work in the fields for a low wage. It didn't work. China had to adopted capitalism and give people incentives of earning more to get their people out of poverty.

It’s difficult to think of any job where you need to work harder than a care worker and they’re on minimum wage. It makes my blood boil.

I don’t begrudge even footballers or actors because who else would get the huge profits - the owners, the production studios. The people that took the risk can get the rewards.

I’ve never seen pay as a mark of what society values though - just market rate. There are so many other things that are enriching, it’s why some of the most competitive jobs offer cultural benefits other than pay.

Although huge inequality does breed unhappiness so some modification through tax / laws etc helps

@Alsohuman their are tons of jobs who work harder than care workers, many doctors and nurses for a start my husband works up to 84 hours a week sometimes in an extremely physical job. I’m not saying care workers don’t work hard, I’m just saying that there are more demanding/risky jobs out there.

Peachsummer
I don't judge just the hours, no. I judge the responsibility, the value you bring, the seniority.

A senior member of staff, or any manager of course is paid more (basic salary) than any member of his team. Commissions can change that obviously.

There's a huge difference with people doing a 9 to 5 Monday to Friday, and the manager who they seem working "less" who has to be on call 7 days a week and is responsible for the team.

The same way a head teacher is paid more than a teacher. I am not sure that there's so much difference in terms of their actual hours of work? (Might be wrong, it's not my field but they seem to work very similar long hours including weekends)

It’s difficult to think of any job where you need to work harder than a care worker

define harder.
Emergency teams who have to pick up people in pieces don't have it that easy, even less the ones who risk their own lives. Any soldier on operation is not that much on a jolly either, and no one even bother to count their hours!

I am sure we could come up with a lot more examples of "hard" jobs.

There's a huge difference with people doing a 9 to 5 Monday to Friday, and the manager who they seem working "less" who has to be on call 7 days a week
Different industries then. Does a footballer work harder than a doctor? Working harder doesn’t necessarily mean you earn more.

Does a footballer work harder than a doctor?
you can't compare the 2. At best you could compare a private surgeon and a footballer. Who brings the most revenue to their business?

Of course I can compare the two. The doctor clearly works harder than the footballer does, but earns less. Which proves that working harder does not equal earning more.