To ask you to stop flying

[Walkingthere]

We are facing a climate disaster. Our children will have to live through it. And yet I overheard two women today discussing how many holidays abroad they had been on this year. Both over 60 years of age. Obviously it will not directly impact on them.
This is also very common in my social group, people jetting off 4-5 times a year. Mini-breaks, weekends away, European trips, long haul, hen do's, weddings, birthdays. It's unbelievable how much people are burying their heads in the sand.

We need to stop flying. Urgently. Now. My family have not flown in over 5 years. We used to travel a lot, before we realised the consequences. I am putting this here, to make people think, we all need to urgently reduce (ideally stop) flying now.

We should all be depressed, nervous wrecks.

I'd really rather not, ta ever so much. But you go ahead, it seems to really rock your boat!

People don't seem to understand that nothing you think is important is actually important without a habitable planet. Your job. Your three bedroom detached house in the suburbs. Your pension. Your education. Your political views. Your morals and ethics and values.

They mean nothing, in the grand scheme of things, when we are doing what we are doing to the planet we live on.

If only people had bothered to listen, eh ?

When the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten, and the last stream poisoned, you will realize that you cannot eat money

But you go ahead, it seems to really rock your boat

It doesn't at all. But presented with the facts, I don't know that there is another way to feel.

People like you who don't give a shit about our children's lives do make me despair.

dottyboxes

I admire you attempting to get through to people. But I fear we have fallen too far down a cultural rabbit hole here. May as well all keep flying to Spain for two weeks per year... and don’t forget about buying your disposable primark holiday wardrobe before you go!

*We have. Too many people.

Next !*

Right- so how do we reduce population? You think that's simple? That's my point: it requires a massive shift in those countries that have a booming population!
The only "simple" ways to reduce population are war and/or epidemics. I think you'll agree neither are desirable.

People like you who don't give a shit about our children's lives do make me despair.

An awful lot seems to make you despair. It seems to be your default status. Particularly about what other people think or do that you think they oughtn't. So I'm not going to worry too much about me making you despair. You'll do enough of it for the both of us!

ethelfleda

Hopeless isn't it.

People are used to balancing wants with their bank accounts they need to start balancing it with their environment account

I agree with this...

The thing is, non of us live perfectly, we all 'consume', we all use resources - people's priorities are clearly very different - so preaching at people about how they must change just breeds discord. We all need to be doing more... but some of the entitled, selfish attitudes on this thread have staggered me - the amount of people slating other people's choices and demanding to know how many kids they've got and if they're vegan before they'll consider listening to their opinion is baffling! Demanding eco-perfection from any one person before you'll consider their viewpoint valid is crazy - and it reads like a defensive, 'I'm alright jack' attitude that allows people to not consider their own actions too deeply.

Again - it’s not just about reducing the population!! You can’t sit and there and think ‘well I only had one kid or no kids so I can do what I like’ each individual also has to consume less

Demanding eco-perfection from any one person before you'll consider their viewpoint valid is crazy

This. It can’t be an all or nothing approach. Nobody is perfect but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. It’s too simplistic to deman people have fewer children or fly less when there are 100s of ways to make an impact - some people might actually be comfortable with!

In another life, I scrunched numbers and tried to read the runes about future consumer behaviour.

About 10 years ago, we picked up on "generation rent" in the UK. Bascially 20-somethings (now 30-somethings, but there's been a steady replacement activity to keep the pipeline full) who had realised that they were never going to own a home. But instead rent for life.

When they realised that, their spending behaviour changed. They stopped saving for a deposit on a house they'd never own, and switched to spending money on themselves. Why not ? You can't take it with you.

Seems that behaviour - and the economic drivers which created it - is coming home to roost (as showing through on this thread). In much the same way that people renting are starting to become a political force.

Maybe if more people could have bought their own homes, we'd have a different outlook. But we are where we are.

Like I said on a thread a few weeks ago when people were calling big families for the planet being doomed, you’re all playing your part in the planet being doomed if you live in the modern world. So many people who think they are better than others and who can tell others what to do when they do just as much. It’s laughable.

Some people are wilfully dense, aren't they?

The impending ecological disaster has various threads of individual sub-disasters e.g. deforestation, plastics/oceans/fish, biodiversity, extinction, food supply chains, climate change and so forth.

Every consumer decision we make contributes to one or more of these threads, e.g flying and global warming-->further deterioration of the icebergs.

On the other hand, overpopulation e.g. lots of people deciding to to have lots of kids, like your friends on the big families board, is a full frontal assault in all aspects.

Right- so how do we reduce population?

Better education and easy to access contraception. It's shown that those with better education tend to have less children and invest more in them.

If everyone only had 2 children, the. The population over time will decrease as not all the children will wish to have child of their own and others will die before they get to a breeding age.

When the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten, and the last stream poisoned, you will realize that you cannot eat money

If you don't have money, then you cannot buy food or land to be able to grow food on. No money tends to equal death if you can't buy, grow or scavenge food.

Well no I won't because if I stopped flying then I wouldn't see my family

Right- so how do we reduce population? You think that's simple?

The shocking news is nature - and the planet - don't give a shiny shit how it happens. If - as a species - we can achieve it ourselves then great. Happy ending.

If not, then rest assured nature will. by whatever means necessary.

It seems - as a thread, as a forum, as a country and as a planet we've already made out choices and are happy to let nature "do it's thing". We're all in this together. No one can get off the bus.

Seriously.

The planet is not dying. Changing, but not dying. We will change with it.

The planet is not dying. Changing, but not dying. We will change with it.

Er, isn't that nature ?

As long as we're all happy with what "change" looks like.

What a brilliant way to live. Sounds super fun. I think I would rather be dead.

LOL. I went to type that in response, also, and deleted. I'm glad I'm not the only one though. . .

When the Royals, the Goverment and it's hanger on's and all the wealthy people stop flying their private planes, then i will give it some consideration.
Until then i will carry on flying to where i want to be.

What a brilliant way to live. Sounds super fun. I think I would rather be dead.

Well I would rather be scared and stick around to try to do something about it so my son and his peers can live something resembling a decent life.

I used to be as apathetic as you are though, so crack on and be patronising if you want to.

Haven't read the full thread but YABU.

We should all be depressed, nervous wrecks

Why?

I’d much rather try and be positive and make changes where I can than be depressed and nervous.

I live a perfectly full and happy life thank you. Climate change makes me depressed and nervous in the same way one would be if diagnosed with a terminal illness. It doesn't necessarily mean you don't enjoy the life you've got.

If nothing else, I want to be able to look my son in the eye and tell him I did my best.