To ask you to stop flying

[Walkingthere]

We are facing a climate disaster. Our children will have to live through it. And yet I overheard two women today discussing how many holidays abroad they had been on this year. Both over 60 years of age. Obviously it will not directly impact on them.
This is also very common in my social group, people jetting off 4-5 times a year. Mini-breaks, weekends away, European trips, long haul, hen do's, weddings, birthdays. It's unbelievable how much people are burying their heads in the sand.

We need to stop flying. Urgently. Now. My family have not flown in over 5 years. We used to travel a lot, before we realised the consequences. I am putting this here, to make people think, we all need to urgently reduce (ideally stop) flying now.

It's great that you do all that & I mean it sincerely. But if you (I mean all, not just you personally) went the whole hog & also didn't fly as much then it would help even more...
I get that it's an enormous ask of everyone & people aren't willing to do it. Which is why I'm saying threads like this scare me & I'm starting to realise there's not much hope to be had.

Really GrandOld so presumably you don't have kids, don't drive, don't eat meat, grow all your own food, live off grid etc etc - you must be so sure that you couldn't possibly do any more, to be in a position to lecture the likes of WhyTho. Otherwise you're like my coffee cup hating ex-friend - pick your passion and can't accept why everyone else hasn't picked the same one.

You’re probably right but it’s not going to happen anytime soon.
We fly for work, for pleasure and to see our children sometimes. Yes, there’s an environmental price to pay but it’s not likely to happen and not likely to have sufficient impact to prevent global warming.

Flying abroad is a luxury that we don't really need, that once upon a time we lived without, as is driving, as is fast fashion, as is single use plastics. These are the kind of things we need to think about living without if we care about the state of the planet for future generations.
Yes there's loads more that I can & should & will do, I'm by no means perfect, nobody is. But the thread is about not flying.

I've been doing a bit of research and they're is no clear defined answer to what is worse for the environment. Some places are saying :

Some ferries are worse than flying, and cruises most definitely are.

Flying for long distances looks to be better than using alternative transport.

Flying on full planes is not dissimilar to long distance car journeys, (possibly depending on how many people are in the car).

The carbon emissions from flying is a fraction of those from car journeys and truck journeys.

Lucky you Dottyboxes...evidently you've never had to move for work, because HMG requires you to do so. That's probably why you are being sanctimonious about those who do live away from family.

I have turned down several jobs on the basis they require relocation actually, because I prioritise being near my family.

You can be snotty about it all you like, but most people living away from family have made an active choice to do so.

My father was put on a plane and forcibly ejected from his home country, after being imprisoned and tortured. Away from his family and friends. That was not a choice. Moving to Australia because you like sunshine is a choice.

But in the UK generally the attitude is that the extended family is unimportant. That's alien in my culture.

Sorry... I fly for work. And no I can't just FaceTime because it's pretty had to review places when you don't go to them.

I cycle to work and don't own a car or have kids

I also believe in the replacement theory - one baby per adult (so 2 per couple) so that the population is stable rather than sprawling.

Sorry, dh flies for work, as did I. We fly to visit his home country each year. We won't be changing that.

You can be snotty about it all you like, but most people living away from family have made an active choice to do so.

And then what? They're supposed to suck it up and sever all ties with relatives and friends abroad?

All this thread has done is highlight how much other people should be doing to save the planet. I'm sure there's a biblical parallel in there somewhere. A parable even.

I also believe in the replacement theory - one baby per adult (so 2 per couple) so that the population is stable rather than sprawling.

But there are too many people on earth at the moment, don't you agree? We don't want the population to be stable, we want it be be (gradually, over decades) decreasing.

Although this thread has gone the way of many before it, I am at least glad that people aren’t denying environmental issues anymore. That is at least some progress.

I think half of the problem is mass consumerism. I read a book recently that hugely changed my attitude on buying ‘stuff’ it was called The Art of Frugal Hedonism and I saw it recommended on here.

We are trapped in to being a nation of 9 - 5ers and buying all the stuff we absolutely need. This stuff has to get transported around the world in most cases - enter giant container vessels and cargo carrying aircraft - huge environmental impact!

Back in the 1950s, at the start of job automation, many economists predicted a 2 day working week for people. They thought our main problem would be figuring how to spend our leisure time!
Now, thanks to disposable fashion, cheap electrical products that get replaced every few years and the loss of the ‘make do and mend’ mentality... people spend spend spend on buying stuff. It’s costs money to work - you’re out of the house for maybe 9 hours a day - you have to run a car, buy convenience food, feel the need to treat yourself to more stuff to congratulate yourself for working hard - including holidays abroad!
Think of some of the things you would do with your time if you only had to work two days a week - I would grow a l lot of my own veg, perhaps make some of my clothes -take the time to cycle to the shops etc.

The economic structure is all wrong and it cannot sustain the way we are living.

All of mine and DH's family live on the other side of the world. It's not really feasible for my DH to quit his job and us all to spend over a month on a ship everytime we need to see family.

And no, I'm not prepared to simply go without a visit when one of our parents is dying.

All this thread has done is highlight how much other people should be doing to save the planet.

True. But I think it's more complicated than that.
It does have to be a collective effort and mostly we need a revolution in how we produce stuff and how we measure success. Consumer growth is killing the planet but we've not found an alternative model yet.

At individual level we're all conflicted as well. I have a job that requires me to travel quite frequently- so lots of flying for me. However, I got rid of the car 10 years ago, recycle and cut down on meat and coffee. Having said that, it's only because I have the luxury of good public transport in my area and lots of online delivery options. Eating less red meat and drinking less coffee though (two very high CO2 generators) is something anyone could commit to...

BlackPrism how does that work?

I have one. Dp has none. So we can have another.

What if I had 2? Dp cant or can have one? He would still have one. I have one, exh has his one (the 2nd child). So 3 adults all have the quota.

But exh cant have another?

Oh and we need to reduce numbers. Not maintain.

According to a BBC news item I saw, a single flight (as in, per traveller) from London to Johannesburg is the equivalent in carbon emissions of running an average house for a full year. So I agree it should be taken seriously.

But it isn't as simple as asking people not to fly when they go on holiday. The changes need to be made by governments. I use Ryanair and EasyJet a few times a year, of necessity. I'm delighted to benefit from return flights costing as little as £30 but I don't understand how it can be justified economically. Unless the airlines are penalised for flying half full planes and so are incentivised to fill them up. Can someone enlighten me?

For all those saying you have to fly to see family in other countries, well actually you don't. Sure it's nice to be able to do so, but it's not so very long ago that if a family member emigrated you'd probably never see them again. Like many of the things that are killing the planet, we now have choices that have negative consequences.

For all those saying you have to fly to see family in other countries, well actually you don't. Sure it's nice to be able to do so, but it's not so very long ago that if a family member emigrated you'd probably never see them again.

Very nice. Are you practising what you preach?

Oh and we need to reduce numbers. Not maintain

This is too simplistic. If you mean by people having fewer children - an aging population with too few young people to follow wouldnt work either.

Songsofexperience it's a good point.

I cant ditch the car because there are no jobs in this area and ds school is quote far away.

Also we cut down on meat for health and financial reasons. I probably wouldnt list it as a change I made for the environment. Helping the environment is just an added bonus.

Also cutting down on coffee was for health reasons. I was seriously addicted and getting awful headaches and shakes. It made my anxiety worse.

I dont fly for financial reasons too. So I am doing pretty well but can hold my hands up and say none of these decisions have been with a focus on the environment.

If I was offered a job that meant flying but made my family financially stable. Not sure I could turn it down.

These are decisions we all have to make.

I think some people are only happy when being miserable. And as the saying goes, misery loves company.