To ask you to stop flying

[Walkingthere]

We are facing a climate disaster. Our children will have to live through it. And yet I overheard two women today discussing how many holidays abroad they had been on this year. Both over 60 years of age. Obviously it will not directly impact on them.
This is also very common in my social group, people jetting off 4-5 times a year. Mini-breaks, weekends away, European trips, long haul, hen do's, weddings, birthdays. It's unbelievable how much people are burying their heads in the sand.

We need to stop flying. Urgently. Now. My family have not flown in over 5 years. We used to travel a lot, before we realised the consequences. I am putting this here, to make people think, we all need to urgently reduce (ideally stop) flying now.

You lost me when you mentioned "60 somethings". How ageist are you?

If you're going to get arsey with people over taking flights, perhaps you should've thought more about the planet before you made your lifestyle choice to have a family. Think of the additional pressure on the planet's resources that causes; we really don't need more people. So what if you've not flown for 5 years

If you're not being deliberately goady and your post is actually serious, then YABU.

@TheAverageJuror right I’m sold, I need some Clover seeds. The idea of fat bumble bees 🐝 in my garden is irresistible! Thank you!

I'm with the OP. But know better now than to tell people not to fly because I think it's unrealistic.

We should all fly less and the ones to target first are business travellers flying dozens of times a year but after that leisure travellers flying off frivolously every few weeks. You can't convince me that people HAVE to fly more than once or twice a year.

Yes to tackle climate change, change needs to be led by governments and big corporations. But they are doing fuck all. To get them to change we ALL need to change our behaviours.
Reducing our meat consumption is another biggie.

I already don't fly anywhere (cos skint). Nor do I drive walkable distances, eat much meat, buy clothes before old ones wear out, keep the house too warm, buy coffee / water in shops (all cos of money). Maybe this climate change thing will finally make poor people more virtuous than the middle classes!

@Lifeover I do 5 of those 6.

It still doesn't change the fact that empty planes can and do take off every single day because they need to pick up at another location. And remember it's not just people they transport, goods too.

And it's no use saying that airlines should operate more efficiently, they'll already be operating at as few waste flights as possible because planes are expensive to fly!

@EleanorOalike welcome to the clover club. Btw they also LOOOOOOOVE lavender. I am surprised they can still fly tbh😂

I also have wild corner. That's an area in a corner where I put a bowl with water, logs, shelther and i cat the grass/clover once in 3 months just to refresh it. Cabbage and other plants for caterpillars are there too. And frogs.
And if you want a really good fun, put a bird bath somewhere and nestboxes. If you have a space. Little sparrow chicks make the cutest beeps.

OP, lobby against important football matches being held abroad. Lobby against trade shows and conferences. Thousands of people fly into them. (Many trade shows laughably pretend to care about sustainability while inviting 5000 people+ to fly in for a couple of days). Nobody needs to go to these things. Start with those and you might have an impact.

You have a damn cheek pontificating about the actions of others when you have multiple children and over-population is the thing that has the most impact on the planet. Who the hell do you think you are to tell other people how to live?

@ADarkandStormyNight, you can try getting a ferry to the States or Australia if you want, but I have to say, I won't be joining you.

Good luck with that!

I'm over 60 and starting to feel it. I normally drive a Prius. And the 880 mile round trip driving solo to visit my family and old hometown is starting to wear on me. An 880 round trip on a bus is just as wearying.

We don't have trains like you have in the UK so that's not an alternative.

How do you suggest I get there?

No, I won't give up my yearly flight.

YWBU, but only because I don't fly anyways.

@lifeover Not sure what you've got against buses, they're a perfectly reasonable choice and ideal for under three mile journeys. Especially because carrying shopping home quickly becomes difficult over the course of three miles. I wouldn't fancy carrying a full shop three miles uphill, let's say.

Not going to go vegan three days a week either (that's ludicrous - you can't switch a lifestyle on and off like that, any more than I could decide to be Jewish but only on Thursdays).

Two items of clothing every two months sounds excessively often to me, how on earth are you wearing out your clothes so quickly?

As for the heating, I'd love to keep it at 18C, but if I do that it's 13C upstairs in the winter which is low enough to make my chilblains horrific, and not great for my asthma either. And I spent several years with no heating at all, living at about 10C in winter - but that was when I was younger. I'm not going to martyr my health for the sake of a small amount of gas that I can save in other ways.

In that case why not dictate other things
One flight
One car
One child
One non meat meal a day
You can't put air travel back into non flight days

Wow, the responses to this original question really do make me realise how screwed we are. What a massive 'fuck you' mentality there is. We need to live, and breathe, and grow food on this planet, this is literally our survival (all of human life survival!) under discussion. Global warming affects us all.

We should all be cutting down on flying. (Cars, dairy, meat, buying brand new things too...). I like clean air, clean seas and the existence of some wildlife at least!

I know people who have never flown, do they get to walk around with a special badge of honour, do they receive special treatment
What's the incentive to stop flying ?

Can someone explain offsetting to me please?
Yes I know I could Google but I find it too frightening, tbh so gentle terms would be good.
Have flown 2 European return flights in the last 10 years, grow fruit and veg organically, but have 3 kids, if you want my credentials!

I fly around once a year - well, twice if you include the return journey. All of my DH's family live abroad, so giving up flying altogether is not an option as far as I'm concerned. For shorter haul journeys, I do look at alternative options, e.g. eurostar, ferries etc.

The thing is, OP, it isn't just about flying, is it? It's our overall lifestyles. I walk nearly everywhere/use public transport and rarely use my (hybrid) car. I haven't eaten meat for 30+ years and I only have one child.

It's easy for you to be sanctimonious about flying, but the reality is that your second child has a greater detrimental impact on the planet than my annual flight.

We all need to think about future generations and what we're doing to the planet, but the reality is that some changes will be much easier for some families than others. Perhaps it would be best if we all focused on the changes that we could make ourselves, rather than lecturing others on what we think they should do?

The levels of aggression of some responses are really scary.

Flying less is one of the way the stop the environmental crisis. It seems it won’t happen easily.

Another way is to finally start taxing aircraft fuel and stop subsidising the flight industry.

We all need to think about future generations and what we're doing to the planet, but the reality is that some changes will be much easier for some families than others

What other changes will be easier and better?

Oh give over.
You think by your family not flying for 5 years you've made even one iota of a difference. Your bloody deluded woman

One family not flying on one holiday won’t make a difference, hundreds of thousands having one less holiday will.
Why are you so rude and aggressive?

Ok so you think that two 60yr olds that (I would guess ) worked most of their lives or the would not be able to afford holidays abroad should not be allowed to enjoy their retirement.
If PP is correct and you do have two cars you are a hypocrite.
You say your family have not flown for 5 years , I haven't flown for over 10 years ( but that's more due to other restrictions )
I also don't have any dc's so they are going to be damaging the environment with all the plastic stuff that children want.

So I have not flown for 10 years I don't drive and I don't have any DCS however I am planning on flying later this year I hope that's ok with you.

Where's the proof that flying causes climate change ?
Where's the proof that a combination of things cause climate change ?
Easter Island was that caused by humans ?

What other changes will be easier and better?

Well, for example, it's much easier for me and my family to go without meat than it would be for us to avoid flying and never see my DH's side of the family again. I imagine that some families would find it easier to stop flying instead.

Likewise, it's easy for us to walk/use public transport most of the time, and to have only one low emissions car between us, which we rarely use. However, for other families, with different circumstances, that would be impossible, and it would be much easier for them to give up flying.

Some people are happy to limit the size of their families to only one child, whereas others think that siblings are essential and non-negotiable.

Of course, there's an argument that we should all stop at one child (if we have children at all), go vegan, avoid flying, avoid car travel etc etc. In an ideal world, that's probably true, but the reality is that very few people are willing to make sacrifices in all areas of their lives, and unless you legislate, it probably won't happen.

My point is that it's easy for people to preach to others about the changes that happen to suit them, while merrily ignoring the ones that don't. Personally, I'd rather that people save the virtue-signalling lectures about what others should stop doing, and focus instead on what they can do themselves.

FWIW, I think legislation is the only way forward. We need to force change, as it won't happen otherwise.

I’m not going to stop flying. People like you make me want to fly more.

what if we're all supplied with a certain amount of 'climate credits' (for want of a better term) per year and once exceeded that was all we are able to spend?
no buying or selling or trading in climate credits, each person strictly had the same amount...maybe some minor adjustments to account for circumstances but no more than say 10% concessions