It's a bit of a worry: US hooks into the NHS

[echt]

The idea of the US getting involved in the NHS is horrifying:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/02/us-wants-access-to-nhs-in-post-brexit-deal-ambassador-to-uk-says

When health care facilities are largely owned and operated by private sector businesses, health care becomes considerably more expensive.

Health expenditure in the US is on average $10,224 per person.

I’m absolutely horrified.
Even more disgusted that not one Tory MP has challenged this.
So many Tory and Brexit voters are going to be up shit creek if the NHS is privatised.
The likes of Farage and BoJo will be ok of course, but your average joe, who they have continuously lied to, are going to get poorer and sicker.
It was only a couple of days ago that Hammond denied people are dying from poverty in the UK. These bloody men are so out of touch with reality and it’s going to seriously damage people’s lives.
I’m actually incensed.

I think this is horrible. I can see a lot of US companies winning contracts and providing a mediocre service in order to scrape a profit. Nhs lose all those contracts so we no longer have the equipment, staff, structure and when it goes tits up we can't just start it up again so it goes to another greedy company who says they'll do a better job for less money...
People are outraged when Virgin sued NHS bit this would happen all the time with US companies.

This isn't a surprise though. EU and USA wanted TTIP which would have put NHS under the same risk I believe.

The NHS is not one organisation. It is lots of different NHS trusts that are paid by commissioning groups to offer services. The CCGs put some services out to tender which individual trusts or private companies then bid for. We already have American companies doing stuff in the UK. Normally for things like routine orthopedic surgery. It remains free to the patient and sometimes the patient will have a much shorter wait for that surgery because the private company is more effectively run. Each individual NHS trust employs managers who all make different decisions about whether to bid for tenders. It is not one organisation any more. It amazes how few journalists understand this.

I dont understand the hysteria, do people really think the government will sell the NHS? So you rock up to a&e to be told, "sorry its been sold".

I bet in ten years time access to the NHS will still be free at the point of use. Anything else is just fear mongering.

@JocelynBell1 just been quoted $45k for hospital normal delivery and minimum $10k for basic newborn checks, which will be reduced to a couple of thousand with insurance (hopefully) 😱😱
Add another $10k if it progresses to C/S, and cross fingers no NICU needed.

Some mental health trusts near us are already run by a profit making private company. It's been disastrous for patient care, which is stripped back and those who suffer most are the poorest with chronic mental health conditions.

A co pay system along the lines that some European countries have already adopted -- fine.

For profit, US style healthcare -- disastrous.

I suspect what will happen is all outsourced contracts on the NHS will be up for grabs.
Similar to EU procurement rules we have now but with the EU we are protected by their legislation.

Outsourcing contracts means profit making entities will be tendering for things like food, security and perhaps medical services. These companies will promise the earth but (from my experience with large multinationals) won't deliver. These companies will cut corners so they can maximise profit - all paid for by the taxpayer.

There will be consequences if the NHS don't invite USA companies to tender.

If you think about who owns all the multinationals and who controls the media it all becomes very clear on my opinion.

I could be wrong but that is my take on it.

jellymaker lots of the private companies who won tenders cannot make a profit and the service they provide is inadequate. This doesn't result in more finding bit instead results in the loss of staff and infrastructure for an area of NHS provision that won't magically reappear once the contract ends.

US companies will be very competitive in order to win these contracts, and it'll all fall flat in the end.

Moraxella there's no suggestion that people will have to pay anything more than they do now, nor that they will need to go through health insurers. Perhaps in 15 years when it does finally become totally unsustainable though yes.

@BogstandardBelle I am in Switzerland and the healthcare costs are phenomenal.

I paid £400 for my 8 year olds glasses (thick lenses), and get £120 reimbursed annually.

Don't even think about dentists bills...

We have our monthly insurances, (approx 20% of our monthly income as we are a family of 6) and then the excess, and then we can claim a percentage of the remaining costs back. You can buy additional insurance against the remaining costs.

And of course, we are billed for missed appointments and any time (in 5 min slots) where we go over our schedule.

We receive bills and have 30 days to pay them, which in theory will allow us to claim from our insurance and have the money in our accounts as the bills need to be paid.

That said, we do receive top notch care, can get appointments and choose our own medical professionals. One of our DC has additional needs and receives many therapies and treatments which is picked up by the states invalidity insurances, so we will never see these bills before his 20th birthday.

But it definitely does come at a financial cost and requires a hefty cushion. I know people who have had to borrow from friends and family to receive life saving treatment.

The NHS is in dire need of an

Some NHS services are already outsourced. I'm an ongoing patient for a bad injury at the moment and some of my treatment has been done by a private company and some at the local hospital.

It makes no difference to me (except you can actually get through to speak to someone at the outsourced bit, and the service runs on time). I don't pay anything.

Oops posted too soon!

NHS needs a makeover but it should also be protected.

I find it astonishing that this is ‘news’ or a surprise. It’s a totally predictable consequence of Brexit

NHS is being purposely run down. Bursaries axed, thousands of vacancies. Right wing argument that NHS is unsustainable. Brexit opens the door to privatisation. I’m sure it’ll be as successful as the privatisation of the probation service

And I do think the NHS will grind to a halt. It needs a complete overhaul. The current funding and management model simply doesn't work.

I don't understand why some people think it comes down to a binary choice of the NHS or the U.S. system.

It would only come down to this if we crash out of the EU without a deal and have our backs against the wall desperate for a deal with the US. As Trump and the American ambassador have both said, they want access to the healthcare market as part of the terms of a deal. They are infinitely more powerful than us in the terms of any negotiation so all the candidates for PM can say what they like now, but I can totally see one of them caving out of desperation.

I've said this before, but we do not have the size or influence to be a powerful single player. If we leave the EU, we will be forced to align ourselves with another powerful ally. The US is making clear what the terms for its support will be.

This isn't about having a debate about NHS funding. There's a time and a place for that, but it's not with our backs against the wall economically and politically. That debate needs to be done in a measured way at a time of stability.

I've just started an AIBU thread with a petition to stop the NHS being part of UK/ US trade talks - over a 100 000 people have signed it so far, please sign and share.

thread with petition

Outsourcing of contracts has happened since 2012 and was the direct result of the health and social care act. The fact that so few journalists understood it meant it was so poorly reported. The Americans have been here since then. Inevitably some providers do not renew at the end of a contract and the CCGs then award it to someone else. This whole thread shows how ignorant the Guardian journalist is and how the general public does not realise that this horse has not only bolted but the door is now shut. It can only be reversed if we reversed the health and social care act and we have spent so much time focused on Brexit that that is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Moraxella Tue 04-Jun-19 20:46:59
@JocelynBell1 just been quoted $45k for hospital normal deliveryand minimum $10k for basic newborn checks, which will be reduced to a couple of thousand with insurance (hopefully) 😱😱
Add another $10k if it progresses to C/S, and cross fingers no NICU needed.

Apologies, Moraxella, it was not my intention to underestimate the costs of healthcare in the privatised system in the US.

The Odious Orange One is busy scuppering the revised North America Trade Agreement (with threats of tariffs on Mexico over immigration). No way any trade deal will get organised with UK, even if UK desperately needs it & actually would be willing to take the expected poor terms.

I wish folk would not call Crashing out of EU 'No Deal'. "No Deal" is complete misrepresentation.

And I do think the NHS will grind to a halt. It needs a complete overhaul. The current funding and management model simply doesn't work

Well, thats what the Cons want you to believe but the truth is, even without Austerity, the NHS is historically under funded.

Austerity gives us an even poorer quality NHS which the Cons can then say will be fixed by further privatisation.... much like BR and the subsequent failed rail sell off.

Of course, if you don't want the Americans to buy up the NHS, then don't vote Tory in the May 2022 GE, no trade deal will be signed or even negotiations started before then, its in our own hands.