Civil Service pay help (SEO)

[cshelp]

I'm applying for an SEO role in a non departmental public body. It was described as £35,175. Because it's a public body it advertises its salaries, in the salary organogram(sp?) it described its SEOs as being on a minimum of £35,175 and maximum of £41,999 (or thereabouts). So am I to assume the salary range is actually £31,175-£41,999, incremental depending on appropriate PDRs? I'm not talking about negotiating, I'd happily start on £35,175, just hoping I can progress up to £42k eventually. Sorry if this is a stupid question, the fact it was only described as £35,175 has me worried.

Actually maybe a better thing to do is get job offer, then negotiate. So not at interview, where HR unlikely to be present.

Wait to see if you're offered it before discussing pay.

I won't mention it, got plenty of other questions and I tend to cringe talking about money anyway (I don't work in finance or procurement/commercial matters as you may tell!)

It depends which NDPB it is and how much leeway they get from the core department. Most will have to follow the 1% maximum pay increase. Even if they don’t get all funding from government, the part that they do get will be heavily cut for the foreseeable future. Salaries and staff are the biggest expense for organisations, so often this means limits on pay increases and bonuses, as well as limited opportunities for promotion. But the other benefits, such as pension, flexible working, sick and mat leave and job security are great.

Agree don’t ask about pay at the interviews - there’s no way they’ll be able to give you an answer (am also a civil servant).

What would be your argument for negotiating higher pay? If SEO minimum is a £5k pay rise for you, then you can’t argue that by transferring to the minimum you’d be taking a pay cut (a classic reason to ask not to start on the minimum). Do you have some kind of qualification or experience which is directly relevant to the role and which is considerably over and above what the job spec asked for? Eg a PhD in something directly relevant?

I’d generally encourage anyone to ask for more pay (nothing to lose), but you do need some quite persuasive argument, over and above the one about not wanting to be stuck on the payband minimum - that’s the situation everyone is in, so that’s not a valid negotiation point.

Have all quangos followed the CS pay scale?

I work for one and we get pay rises. They are still rubbish though.

@Wigeon well I'm not at the top of my salary scale in my current job yet so it's an immediate £5000 increase but not in the long term. But he so totally see what you mean. And yeah I have a formal qualification in the field (that isn't required as it's field that can be gotten into in a few different ways but I have a qualification and a number of years practical experience). It's the type of job that pays significantly higher in the private sector (but I still have a few areas I need more experience in which this job offers which is why it feels a natural progression and would open more doors long term) so I suppose if the pay really does stay at £35k there just won't be much incentive to stay for very long.

@PrimalLass just the cost of living rise instead of salary scale increments I guess?

No we've had increments I think??

I'm an SEO who joined last year at the bottom of the bracket. There is no mechanism for progression.

This is good to know though as I was looking around for another similar job but on a grade up to keep my pension. Probably not much point if I'd get stuck at the bottom.

No we've had increments I think??

I'm pretty sure we are meant to progress to top of grade within something like 3 years.

It really does depend on the department /quango though. My department still has pay progression so as long as your performance marking each year is effective or better you can assume that you will get to the maximum in five years.

@PrimalLass yes it's the pension that would alleviate it for me, after going from a public pension for 7 years and then onto a private pension I've seen the HUGE difference this makes, so I need to see the package as a whole. Although annoyingly I'd lose my childcare vouchers and we are much better off with those than tax free, plus it reduces how much I pay back of my student loan ha.

@nonevernotever thank you, I'm not hopeful though as it was advertised as £35,175, surely if you want to attract the best candidates you advertise the full range possible?

When I was a civil servant, the difference would be between an entry level national (lowest end) and a veteran London based. And then with addition of things like accountancy allowance.

Would anyone be able to tell me how much they contribute in pension? I would be contributing 5.4% I think from what I've worked out, what do they put in? I've tried looking online but have found it really confusing, was hoping to just find a percentage (I'm not applying for HR either btw...!!)

I think they often pay in double what you do, was when I left a year ago anyway, so another 10.8% on top of yours

Will vary from dept to dept tho...

Usually as a CS you start on the minimum, I am an SEO and with the 1% a year my pay usually goes up by £340. (I started as an AA about 14 years ago) I am on £34500 but I was at the top end of HEO when I was promoted. (I am not in London or a hotspot). I like my level and I am happy to stay here for the foreseeable future.

I always find it odd when people complain about the CS as it has a fantastic pension and I really enjoy my job. Being part of the government and making a positive difference to the lives of UK citizens is something I really enjoy, perhaps I would be paid more in the private sector but that isn’t why I joined the CS. I head a team delivering a high profile piece of work and it’s fantastic to see the impact of that work on communities.

Maybe I am lucky I work in an interesting and progressive department.

Good luck with your interview x

@moveyourarse thank you, you're right. This isn't a financial move it's a move into more what I want to specialise in full time( as opposed to part of my role currently) and I really believe in the work this department does, it would be very exciting and worthwhile. I'm not just on a mission to get to 6 figures by X date or anything like that. Although wouldn't turn it down 😁

It's a defined benefit scheme so your % is fixed and the employer pays the rest of the cost to fund the scheme. This is calculated on an actuarial basis so it won't be a fixed % of salary. Back when I was in pensions about 10 years ago, estimated cost for an employer offering a defined benefit arrangement was about 25% of payroll. This figure is a general one and not specific to the civil service scheme, just to give you an idea of the significant cost of DB pensions.

@moveyourarse I really enjoy my job too, and have no complaints about the civil service. I've been here for nearly 7 years (which is the longest I've ever stayed in any job!!!) No plans to move on. I have interesting work, flexible arrangements and great colleagues.

@emsyj37 my current employer only matches my pension contributions up to a maximum of 6% so I'm guessing CS is more than that 😂

@emseyj37 gotta love flexible working :) I work from home most of the time as I have a disabled child so my work life balance is perfect. If memory serves I pay 5.45% and CS pay 24.5% into pension, not as good as the old days of final salary pension but will be average salary. OP, can be a very good career move and of course good prospects of moving around departments, many jobs are internal, plus lots of opportunities for working on new projects etc. I am MoJ and wouldn’t go anywhere else, brilliant department to work for.

I already have a very good flexible working arrangement where I am so it'll be a conversation before fully accepting the job of offered as I guess that's the one thing money can't buy really, but they advertised themselves as family friendly and there is not "public facing" element like I have now so I'm hopeful it shouldn't be too difficult to get what I have now. Although I may have to surrender my working from home day a week if it doesn't suit the role I guess (if I was successful, I'm honestly not very confident I will get it!)