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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think religion will play less of a role in 21st century?

113 replies

sockatoe · 31/05/2019 13:48

AIBU to think as society and the human race evolves, there is less need for organised religion? Are we moving towards a less religious society?
We can explain the world around us with science
We have laws to outline acceptable and unacceptable behaviour without the threat of eternal damnation as a consequence of not conforming
We have access to healthcare without going through a religious organisation
People are able to be "spiritual" and self aware without a God figure
People socialise and support one another and charity through means other than religion.

Obviously, many horrific and inhuman acts have and continue to be made in the name of religion. Also, many amazing, heroic and kind acts take place in the name of religion too.
AIBU to think that the majority of people are good, kind and helpful and they outnumber the rest? And that as time goes on, the human race will simply cooperate with one another because that's what you do, without outpouring love and obedience to a God figure who may or may not cast you into eternal damnation if you don't serve them well enough?

OP posts:
palahvah · 31/05/2019 15:17

And yet, the continued influence of evangelical Christianity and Islamic fundamentalism beg otherwise.

It may be far more socially acceptable in the West to shun organised religion, but many people feel their lives are missing some of the benefits organised religion has historically offered - community, belonging, purpose, support for the vulnerable, etc.

I'm sure none of us misses the judgement and constraints of the religions that are waning in popularity, but our freedoms are offset by the attempted influence of growing religions on the whole population (eg Birmingham school protests).

Human beings are inherently selfish when it comes to the survival of their own tribe, that's why we've invented multiple religions, philosophies and codes to tell ourselves and each other how to behave.

Pinkvoid · 31/05/2019 15:23

No, I think in countries like the USA, Australia, Canada, NZ and UK you have a point but you haven’t been to pretty much the whole of Africa, Asia or most of Europe if you think religion as a whole is becoming obsolete.

Pinkvoid · 31/05/2019 15:24

I should backtrack on the USA and say, some states rather than the whole country. Some states are still stuck in the 1950s and religion is very important.

herculepoirot2 · 31/05/2019 15:26

Well, we’re twenty years in...

IsabellaLinton · 31/05/2019 15:27

Many people feel their lives are missing some of the benefits organised religion has historically offered - community, belonging, purpose, support for the vulnerable, etc

I agree. I dithered over whether I have my children christened, and in the event I chose not to, but I really don’t know if I made the right choice. Maybe I didn’t. Sad

agnurse · 31/05/2019 15:29

The Catholic Church actually feeds, clothes, and supports more people than any other organization in the world.

Are the other organizations prepared to pick up all of the slack if the Church suddenly ceased to exist?

thecatneuterer · 31/05/2019 15:33

Exactly. We are only 20 years in. I'm astonished that it's still around but surely it will eventually die out and will be looked back on in the same way that we look at peoples who believed in Norse gods and such. In other words people will find the stories interesting but be a bit incredulous that the people of the past could ever have believed such obvious tripe.

ineedaknittedhat · 31/05/2019 15:39

I think some human beings are always ready to believe in things that aren't true, so religion will continue. It's also a handy way to control populations.

SpiderPlant38 · 31/05/2019 15:42

Doesn't seem to be declining worlwide from what I can see . But it depends what, (when), you are comparing it with and how you define religion.

Shaggydog99 · 31/05/2019 15:45

It seems unlikely so long as we still have a state religion in the UK.

IsabellaLinton · 31/05/2019 15:49

@agnurse

The Vatican also spread the lie that condoms increased the likelihood of AIDS. I was raised in a strict Catholic home, but I’ve left the church - I can’t overlook the misery and pain they’ve inflicted on people over so many years and the wheedling half-apologies for historic misdeeds.

Imsureitsasugaredpoo · 31/05/2019 15:53

Lots of Christians don’t believe in infant baptism IsabellaLinton, what effect do you think not being christen might have on your dc?

I can’t see religion going anytime soon, if anything it seems to be growing where I live.

DGRossetti · 31/05/2019 15:55

Personally I think it's going the other way ....

IsabellaLinton · 31/05/2019 15:57

@Imsureitsasugaredpoo

Because I’m Catholic, and because it’s a sacrament.

Ivegotthree · 31/05/2019 16:01

You sound quite vehemently anti-Catholic, @IsabellaLinton which is completely fair enough, but why then feel conflicted about not baptising your children?

Either it's all dreadful bollocks and you're well out of it, or it's quite nice and good to be part of, surely?

Imsureitsasugaredpoo · 31/05/2019 16:06

You believe it’s a sacrament but yet didn’t get your dc baptised? Confused Do you not have faith that the Holy Spirit will act in your dc lives?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 31/05/2019 16:09

No, I don't think we're more evolved.

This trans thing has been a wake up call for me in terms of how ready people are to believe the unscientific if the social context makes it easier to do so.

Something will fill the gap left by the CofE in the coming century but whether it will be an existing faith or something completely new, remains to be seen.

tomtom1999xx · 31/05/2019 16:11

Personally I think it's going the other way

^
This.

IsabellaLinton · 31/05/2019 16:12

@Ivegotthree

I know, I’m not making much sense, but it’s hard to explain. My family are all very devout, and went to a convent school - I loved church and I have wonderful childhood memories. So I wanted my children to experience that too, that sense of security and belonging, but as I grew older I realised that the Catholic Church has done a lot of people tremendous harm, and I don’t want to be party to it. It’s emotion versus rationality, I think.

IsabellaLinton · 31/05/2019 16:18

@Imsureitsasugaredpoo

(Sorry to go off-topic everyone. No... I’m feeling more and more that I made the wrong decision. For everything negative I just said about the Church, there’s still a strong emotional pull, and it’s difficult to unpack why I feel this way.)

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 31/05/2019 16:26

According to the Pew Research Center, which analyses global trends, people with no religion are set to decline as a share of the world's population.

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/07/why-people-with-no-religion-are-projected-to-decline-as-a-share-of-the-worlds-population/

It's easy to get a distorted sense of what's going on globally if you take the UK/Europe as representative.

Imsureitsasugaredpoo · 31/05/2019 16:40

I understand what you mean now @IsabellaLinton

Fink · 31/05/2019 16:43

Yes, YABU. You've listed a load of perceived 'needs' that you think religion used to fulfil but doesn't any longer. But for people who are religious believers, their belief is not based on answering scientific questions, or needing moral deterrents, and the charitable work is as a result of faith rather than a reason for it. People who are believers are not seeking to solve the problems that you've listed, at least not at a primary level. Believers have faith because they trust that faith to be true and therefore worthwhile. Faith in God is an end in itself, not an answer to a sociological question.

It is definitely the case that religious practice has declined in the UK and western Europe recently and appears to be still declining as older believers die off and are not replaced because younger generations are brought up with no religion. A friend of mine does his academic research/teaching on this, and there are numerous reasons which would take pages here. Definitely a proportion of the people who used to practise but don't now were looking for the kind of thing you mention. So, to the extent that fewer people are practising, the role of religion may decline. But there is evidence that the people who are still practising (or who have begun to practise from not being religious) are on average more committed to their faith identity than in previous generations.

Summary: fewer people in this country practise a religion. In that sense, its societal importance may decline. OTOH, the people who do practise increasingly want to integrate and express their faith in all areas of their life (increasingly compared to the 20th century, since previous comparisons are difficult owing to the different societal norms etc.); in that sense its societal importance may increase.

Two more points: 1) as has been mentioned upthread, the UK situation is not the worldwide picture and the UK can't be seen in isolation.

And finally (on this part), many of the more committed believers tend (again, only on average) to have more children than the UK average; just by numbers of people born into the faith, what might be seen as 'fundamentalist'/'hardcore' Christians, Muslims, and Jews are growing faster than their less committed/'moderate' counterparts.

Also, on a scientific level, you either don't understand what evolution is or you've accidentally chosen the wrong word. The evolution of the human race could go in any direction, it is not a relentless improvement, at least not from any objective viewpoint of what 'improvement' might mean.

If human intelligence is increasing (scientifically possible but not definite), it is not on a timescale that can be measured by the decline in religious practice in the past couple of hundred years. It is definitely not the case that our ancestors in the past couple of millennia were gullible and stupid and lucky us for being so clever and evolved and not falling for that stuff any more.

Imsureitsasugaredpoo · 31/05/2019 16:44

Something will fill the gap left by the CofE in the coming century

The CofE will still be here for a while, idk about elsewhere but in my local area the CofE churches have had a bit of a congregation boom due to African members joining.

pigsDOfly · 31/05/2019 16:46

Personally I think it's going the other way

I agree, and it seems to be the nastier aspects of religious belief that are coming to the fore in a lot of religious societies.

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