"Average wage £29,000"

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I've had an ad on my Facebook for one of those "your baby born on this day" type posters with today's stats, which includes the average wage of £29,000. I'm aware this is the average wage according to stats, but there were loads of comments saying that was wrong, "that's more like household" etc. AIBU to ask does £29k seems that unlikely to be average in your opinion? Do bigger salaries drag it up making it look unrealistic to most?

They need to raise the minium wage as on a 40 hour week it's about 12 grand behind.

But if they pretty much doubled NMW there would be price rises so people wouldn't necessarily be any better off.

Taxes would also have to rise so people like hospital cleaners, NHS admin staff and healthcare assistants could be paid more and no-one would bother training to be teachers, nurses, fire fighters, paramedics etc if they could earn the same in any old job. Or their salaries would also have to rise to above the basic minimum.

It's not just as simple as massively increasing NMW.

I read £26k recently and £20,500 for the city I live in. But it depends if it's average earnings or full time equivalent earnings - I only earn about £15k but my fte is £31k based on 37.5 hours a week

I'm not saying it is, what I'm saying there is a vast disparity between minimum wage and the average wage.

The fact that the minimum wage is lower than the median wage isn’t, of itself, evidence that the minimum wage is too low. Short of a complete Marxist revolution overnight it’s necessarily always going to be lower - the question is how much.

It’s currently set to 60% of median, which is high by global standards. Where do you think it should sit? 70% 80% 90%?

Here’s an interesting link
www.bbc.com/news/business-47699571

Where I live in the Midlands (it's probably the same in the north) people earning less than 18k include:

Nursery nurses, teaching assistants, care assistants, post office staff, nearly everyone in retail, catering staff, waiters, factory and manufacturing, office admin, painters and decorators, cleaning, office managers, personal assistants, carpenters, bricklayers, hotel staff, receptionists, medical secretaries, legal secretaries, delivery drivers, everyone on an apprenticeship, artists, small business owners, hairdressers etc etc. So nearly everyone.

Nursery nurses, teaching assistants, care assistants, post office staff, nearly everyone in retail, catering staff, waiters, factory and manufacturing, office admin, painters and decorators, cleaning, office managers, personal assistants, carpenters, bricklayers, hotel staff, receptionists, medical secretaries, legal secretaries, delivery drivers, everyone on an apprenticeship, artists, small business owners, hairdressers etc etc. So nearly everyone.

You count that as nearly everyone??

What about: teachers, police officers, doctors, plumbers, electricians, accountants, lawyers, engineers, scientists, physiotherapists, psychiatrists, medium and large business owners, plus many, many more. They are all going to be on more than 18K (full time).

Not sure you can say all small business owners earn sub 19k !!

Not all, but a lot. A lot of small businesses are in debt and many close down. I heard 5 out of 6 small businesses are not viable and close down within 3 years.

We are a micro business, in a very specialist niche of engineering. We definitely earn more than MW, as does everyone who works for us, even our casual labourers. Much more than NMW. But there is no opportunity for people without decent skills, literacy and some ability to communicate. But as the owners of the business, if demand slackens, we are the people who take nothing. In the real recession of 1990-1995, we went for months without an income, more than a year. It's why small businesses have to save in good years.

I'd like to claim we have never made redundancies, but when there's no work for months on end, as in the 1990s, eventually you have to make choices. It also makes us cautious about expanding too fast. We use casual and zero hours for three months before offering a contract. But to say again, nobody is paid minimum wage. We pay the going rate, plus a bit, even to people who might be very short term.

I should have said nearly everyone I know. I know a couple of teachers, a few managers, a nurse, a doctor, a photographer and a social worker who earn more than 16k. Everyone else I know (around 150 people) is earning a pittance, that's a lot of people very badly paid people.

A lot of people on Mumsnet are living in a real bubble, often living in the SE, often not mixing with people they deem below them. To your average Mumsnutter 29k doesn't sound like much. To most of the country 29k is completely unachievable, even with qualifications and a lifetime of experience.

ONS says small business survival rates are as high as 91% after one year of trading, but after five years just 40% small businesses are still trading , main reason cashflow... late payments. So they may well earn more than that but bigger businesses who pay late, in dribs and drabs as a matter of course kill them off prior to them being paid.

I am a sole trader, I earn a bit more than the median average after all deductions. Most sole traders I network with do too. But I do know some 'hobbyists' and MLMers who earn a pittance. I don't know why they bother, to be honest.

And, as I posted above, even the hospitality sector is starting to have to pay more to keep the doors open. Tight fisted yes, but if you want to eat out, YOU will eventually pay. DS, age 19, can choose between catering jobs at £20K per year, much more in London. In a year's time with more experience, that will be £25-30K. But he works 50-70 hrs a week, and most people don't want to work so long or until midnight most nights.

The rule I was taught was... in year one of trading a viable business, you are living on your savings. in year two, if the business model is sound, it pays for itself (but you can't take money out) and by year three, you should be earning the salary of the job you left to start the business, after year four you ought to be making a profit, or it's time to look for a job.

If you are working 70 hours a week for 25k that is only £6.80 an hour. I'm not surprised a lot of people don't want to do it. How would anyone fit a family life and sleeping around that anyway?

Cashflow is all important in small businesses. If you don't have it, get a job.

Wages are piss poor here. Looking at jobs all evening and most are between 18 and 21 thousand with nothing above until very specialised roles of 80 thousand upwards.

@Mind, because food and cheffing is a creative industry. Performers put in many more unpaid hours, with worse prospects of success.

Median was just over 29k last year, this article is from March 2019 and uses last year's figures.

Catering salaried contract is £xx,000 per annum for 48 hours minimum to 55 hours weekly. Beyond 55 hours, there is overtime. Given that hotel chefs routinely work 80-90 hours a week, the money is decent. There's no time for anything else though.

Some people have incredibly high salaries. Think footballer Alexis Sanchez on close to £25m a year. This brings the averages up. It brings the mean up. It doesn't affect the median. Which is why people usually use the median when talking about salaries.

DS19 has been offered £21k pa as a junior commis chef, on the basis of a serious interest, aptitude, and a good work ethic. Or he could go to uni (he has the grades at A level in academic subjects) and it would cost £35k with every chance of bouncing back on his culinary skills once he started looking for work. Whatever happens in robotics and automation, no robot is likely to deliver a five-star dining experience in the next 30 years.

mind I am northern, now living and working in the Midlands. Since graduating, I have always earned more than the median wage and in the circle of people I know, most of them also earn over.

Everyone lives in bubbles governed by their lifestyles and interests, which is what makes personal experience completely useless when answering questions like the OP's.

Gentleman I'm also a northerner and a graduate living in the Midlands. Are you saying we shouldn't even be discussing whether we think the 29k statistic is correct? Lots of statics are incorrect. I think 29k sounds very high. I know plenty of graduates who have never come close to earning that amount. I understand that's my own personal opinion, but that's all Mumsnet is really.