To think it's illegal to pay a nanny a set salary rather than rate per hour?

[DettolElephant]

I've heard this is the case but yet to find anything to support the claim. I've been offered a salaried position but I would be earning well under my usual fee p/h. All of the nannies I know including myself charge a rate per hour & any overtime we get on top. Can anyone clarify this please?

You could clarify the hours upfront, and, if it is indeed less than you'd normally get request an overtime agreement.....what's the worst that can happen? That's they refuse and say no! In which case, walk away.

Presumably having an annual salary v per hour does have some benefits such as security of a min guaranteed income and the ability to borrow against a salary (mortgage?)....anything in that for you? Have you factored paid holidays into your calculations also?

I would steer well clear of this 'offer'. They claim they won't be over 'by much' but you can bet your bottom dollar they will never, ever be under by as much as 5 minutes.

You will be exploited.

I agree this sounds dodgy. Either negotiate an overtime rate or walk away and tell them why.

I understood and I could be wrong as it was explained to me by a fiend who is a nanny, that the reason a nanny's hourly rate is so high is because when paid like that she is self employed and responsible for her own tax insurance etc. she usually gets a mileage allowance on top, but that's it, my friend took a salaried position last year as her boss wanted to pay her through his company, her lower rate reflects the fact he pays her contributions as an employee, they are responsible for insurance on car, and while she is taxed as normal the lower salary band reduced her tax bill , however her hours have a horrible habit of creeping up at especially busy times of year, she has however gone back repeatedly when this occurs saying how many extra hours she worked and has had a couple of extra weeks holidays when suited them all to make up.

she said this suits her better as shed rather have the odd few days off than an extra couple of hours pay that's taxed. Just be very clear if taking a salaried position that your hours are firm not something that can be disregarded as- not over by much- is still over.

Another problem she found when this family wanted her to babysit at weekend they tried paying her equivalent of her salary, not what they used to pay for babysitting- so now she's always busy at weekends.

OP don’t sign any contract without negotiated pay for working extra or time off in lieu. Parents are being CFs, if they are not going to be late by much then they don’t need to worry about paying overtime.

For the jobs where you don’t get paid extra you have to finish a piece of work not be on job for a set number of hours. Nevermind if there is no chance to finish the job in 40 hours but that’s another topic enitrely :)

If you were paid more by your last employer, I would scpefiify, last salary was X for Y hours, plus X amount per hour for any additional. Will you be able to match this? Just say with paying rent and other fees you could not afford to work for less, as you need to make a living.

A couple of points to consider:

• on a fixed salary you may be an employee, therefore (as mentioned above) comparison against your self-employed hourly rate needs to consider differences in NI, sick/holiday benefits, pension, employment rights, WTD, etc.

• on a fixed price contract you may not be an employee, you may still be self-employed. The devil is in the detail of the contract. "Salaried" implies an employer-employee relationship, but is this the word they used or that you've assumed?

• a contract with variable hours but fixed reward is not in your best interests. It's not unusual for salaried positions to include "duties as required" and be a little flexible on hours, but you want this to be capped and included in the calculation that determines the salary. NMW and WTD both need to be considered against the proposed hours and reward.

I’m a salaried nanny on my basic hours and then over time on top at an agreed hourly rate. In my experience most nannies are salaried.

I would ask for a basic hours cap and an agreed over time rate.

I would agree on the basis that you have set hours (ie. 30) hours overtime are logged and you receive them back in lieu. But if it’s a drop in wages I wouldn’t agree. You can find better

I know nannies worked salaried positions but they have set hours. The one in particular I know is flexible and will sometimes work longer hours to cover a late work meeting but the flexibility is returned when she needs time off and the extra time is added to her holiday time so she doesn't actually work longer hours.

I would generally expect a nanny to be salaried. Then employer pays for holiday pay, sick pay, insurance, tax, etc, as they are an employee. That will be why the per hour rate is lower.

I've been offered a salaried position but I would be earning well under my usual fee p/h.

If you would be earning less than the normal hourly rate for your area, it doesn't sound as though they are offering a competitive salary. Why would you take the job?

I understood and I could be wrong as it was explained to me by a fiend who is a nanny, that the reason a nanny's hourly rate is so high is because when paid like that she is self employed

There are various tests to decide whether somebody is employed, but plenty of employees are paid an hourly rate.

Somebody providing babysitting services to lots of different people would not be an employee because they have a large amount of control over their work and can turn work down as they wish, but a nanny who is expected to be reliably available at set times, who exclusively works for one employer and who cannot just substitute another nanny would usually be regarded as an employee.

The question is less whether you are paid by the hour/week/month, and more 'what is the nature of your contractual obligation?'

Doginatent - nannies are almost always employees, it's fairly unusual to be (legitimately) self employed.

YABU for 'irregardless'. It's Trump talk, doesn't exist as a word.

Don't do it OP.

They sound like total CF's who are setting things up to royally take the piss.

It sounds lile they won't have much respect for your time.

Do you want to make evening plans for 630 only to find they turn up at 8pm because the nanny is home?
Like people who suggest splitting a bill after ordering the steak and expensive wine, this family seem to be trying to orchestrate a situation where they can take the piss

What law do you think is being broken?

Salaried is perfectly normal!!

If you only work for one family then I would have thought you are more likely to be treated as employed rather than self employed, doesn't matter whether it is hourly rate or salary

"I would be getting fixed pay irregardless of hours worked over as according to parents they wouldn't be over by that much. I'm not sure if it meets the nmw or not, I'd have to check. But it is very low in comparison to previous pay."

Hmm. 'Not over by much.' What a wonderfully flexible term. Doesn't matter how much it's over by, it's overtime. Overtime is NOT free. Most of the jobs I have done have been salaried, and whilst I often worked over my hours, that was my choice (to finish particular tasks), and I didn't claim overtime in those circumstances. But, if my employer asked me to work over, that attracted overtime pay. So 'salaried' does not mean they can just drop extra hours on you for free, your salary is for your contracted hours and everything above that, they pay you more. No ifs, no buts.

*If they squabble about paying overtime, turn the job down! They are planning to exploit you!

Our nannies have always been salaried. We offer x wage for 8:30-18:30 or whatever. If we need hours in excess of this they are paid at an additional overtime rate set out in our contract.

As others have said, if you are not happy with what is on offer, negotiate. Say you are happy to accept the salary for whatever hours you propose, but anything in excess of this needs to be paid at an additional hourly rate.

it was explained to me by a fiend who is a nanny, that the reason a nanny's hourly rate is so high is because when paid like that she is self employed and responsible for her own tax insurance etc.

DP used to be a payroll manager for a company that specialises in payroll for domestic staff, mostly nannies.

The convention is, apparently, that the net pay figure is what's guaranteed, so if they quote £24k, the nanny would get £2k pcm and the employer would be responsible for tax and NI on top of that. (This has the interesting upshot that if, for example, a nanny has deductions, eg student loan, the employer is paying that, as it's a net pay contract).

I'd be surprised if a nannying job, where they are working for just one family at a time, could be regarded as being truly self-employed. Some of the tests in IR35, such as having to do what the "client" requests (within reason), sending someone else to carry out the nanny's duties and the client having control over where and when the "contractor" does the work would surely make the relationship an employer/employee one?

They sound like a nightmare already. 🚩 Run

Surely you would earn the salaried amount for up to x hours per week but any hours, or part hours, would be payable at £y phr. They need to deduct tax and ni which may not previously have been the case. Your rate for the salary may be slightly less than your normal rate as a result.

For permanent, full time, sole charge jobs I had a salary and a contract with fixed hours including one night’s babysitting.
Any extra hours would have been charged at an hourly rate agreed in the contract.

Not sure why you think that’s illegal?

For temporary jobs it varied but was still a fixed salary for fixed hours. I charged time and a half for weekends (day or whole weekend) and double for bank holidays.

Make sure you’re negotiating a net wage and get that written into the contract as that shows the employers are liable for tax and NI.

I’d check if they were quoting net or gross salary. If net then if might meet your current pay. Not sure what is usual now but when I had my first DC it was normal to agree a net amount per week or month.