I don't think surgery can make anyone 'beautiful'

[Echobelly]

Was thinking about this after seeing articles today about how some incel types are apparently taking to surgery to make themselves 'Chads' www.thecut.com/2019/05/incel-plastic-surgery.html

I do think surgery can help some people look and feel better if they, say, have one notably bad feature (massive nose, really big chin or something) than can be rendered unexceptional, and that can be an improvement in most people's eyes. But I don't think it can make an 'ordinary' person 'beautiful' - that usually involves having so much surgery that you end up just looking like someone who has had a load of surgery and a bit weird and unnatural. And presumably once you start trying to be 'beautiful' it's never quite good enough anyway.

But be interested in what people's experiences are, though

I think it’s a bit of a paradox because good cosmetic surgery is undetectable; if you can tell someone’s had work done by looking at them then it’s botched, in my opinion, although some looks, like the dreaded trout pout, are obviously designed to look fake (I think it looks terrible but each to their own).

I agree with you in 99 percent of cases but Kylie Jenner sorry she really has gone from a duckling to a swan lol

I hate everything she and her family stand for so hate to be saying this but her before and after pictures have definitely gone from average to beautiful

Every famous south korean actor and actress has had some work done - arguably they all became far more beautiful (by East Asian standards) afterwards.

I've seen pics of indentikit Korean celebs and it's frankly scary! And most of them looked just fine before - they've just had all the personality ironed out of their faces.

I'll declare an interest, as DH, about a year into our relationship, admitted he'd had facial surgery about 8 years before, and I have to say, seeing photos of him before, it was definitely an improvement. Like @IndianaMoleWoman says, it's good because it isn't obvious - you'd not look at old photos and think he'd had something done; if you didn't know, you'd just assume he 'grew into his features' a bit in adulthood, but actually he had slight tweak that let his other features shine through.

The problem feature was fine when he was a kid and only seemed to show up during adolescence. I'll admit if DS (who is a gorgeous kid at the moment, if I do say so myself) developed the same issue as he got older, I would support him having surgery if he wanted it.

Courtney Love and Frances Bean have both had quite transformative surgery. I’ve read an interview with Mac McCulloch of the Bunnymen who knew Courtney Love when she was young and pre surgery and pre fame and he is just so nasty about her looks.

It really changed my mind about cosmetic surgery to be honest. Good looks. are a complete lottery anyway. If you can afford to buy them then go for it.

I think Kylie Jenner was more beautiful before the surgery. But I like the natural look - I hate the harsh lines and fake looking image she has now. But that's my personal preference I suppose.

Surely everyone is beautiful in their own way, without surgery.

I know im probably sounding padantict, picking etc. Careful saying surgery or plastic surgery, alot of people have had reconstructive surgery and really does make them look beautiful and feel so much better about themselves.One of my DSs had nectrotising facitus and has had one of his arms (and a bit were his sholder and kneck is reconstructed) and i rembember when his 8th surgery had been done a few months after he looked at me and said 'mum im handsomeagain' ofcourse i told him he always has been! But it just stayed with me. Just a diffrent prespective

@mindgoinground12 totally agree with your post.

This is what chad brigs to mind
thecurseandthecure.co.uk/2011/01/15/wot-no/

I think Kylie Jenner looks too fake, but Kendall Jenner has had some amazing facial work over the last year.

I read something where Holly Madison was talking about how Hugh Hefner's girlfriends felt the pressure to have surgery, she said they were all pretty girls to start with but that good surgery (usually nose jobs) could give them that step up to "beautiful". I also think good make-up can really transform a face as well.

I think surgery can enhance but I don’t think a created face can ever compete with a naturally beautiful one. Plus flaws & individuality is more attractive than “perfect” featured identikit faces imo.

In terms of celebrity’s the problem is a lot of the time you’re seeing a still photo that’s been contoured/photoshopped etc. In real life when a face is full of filler it looks odd animated.

Kylie looks weird, I feel sorry for her & all her natural youth is gone. Kendall should have left the lips alone.

I've just googled "Kylie Jenner surgery". I think she was beautiful and her face had much more personality before surgery. Now she's beautiful but I couldn't pick her out of a Hollywood crowd.

It's like, yes she does look pretty but also she looks really generic and like someone else. She's had the best money can buy buy I'm guessing it'll take a lot of upkeep to stay that way.

I think it’s objective. There are a lot of Celebs who have had decent surgery, surgery so well done that it isn’t obvious - more of a subtle or a natural look that blends into that person’s existing features. Good surgery means you don’t notice it, so you never really know who has done what.

I would also point out that the article you linked is about incels, very angry men with a distorted view of the world - I wouldn’t take their image of beauty/handsome as universal.