To despise people who don’t vote

[Unfinishedkitchen]

Found out recently that a friend who complains about the possibility of Brexit didn’t actually bother to vote in the 2016 ref. I know of a few people who couldn’t be bothered to vote in the recent EU elections although it appears they have plenty to complain about.

I actually feel like distancing myself from them. I know at least one of them has bothered to in to vote on one of those stupid ITV talent shows.

There’s some woman right now on the radio saying she didn’t vote because she’s fed up and doesn’t know who to vote for!

Why are so many people happy to be bystanders in things that affect their lives and those of their loved ones? Maybe that movie ‘Idiocracy’ was a premonition?

Bertrand no, you're missing the point. There's no distinction between a ballot spoiled in protest and one spoiled in error. So no, they don't send a message and yes, they do get ignored. Just because they're announced doesn't mean they're not being ignored. They also announce how many people don't vote (by virtue of announcing the turnout rate). What makes you think spoiling your ballot is an effective protest?

I don't despise but I find it so frustrating. I have a colleague who is really into politics and we often talk about it together. She complains about the current politicians. I asked her about the European Elections - she didn't vote! The polling station is a 2 minute walk from her house.

“What makes you think spoiling your ballot is an effective protest?”

I don’t. I just think it’s more effective than just not voting. If there were a significantly larger %age of spoiled papers than expected, then the politicians would have to take some notice.

Ok, so what makes you think it's more effective than not voting? Why would politicians have to take more notice of a higher percentage of spoiled papers than they would a lower turnout?

Well, I can’t be sure, of course. But a lower turnout can easily be written off as the electorate being apathetic and crap. A massive increase of spoiled ballot papers would surely indicate something else going on? Imagine a candidate who was beaten by spoiled ballots.......

What business is it of yours? People have their own reasons for not voting what makes you a superior person for doing so?

As it is none of your business, I’m not going to tell you my history of voting. But, I will tell you I didn’t vote on thursday. My main reason for not voting was that this European Election has been hijacked by Farage and his cronies as some kind of attempt to disrupt the political positions in the U.K., as some sort of pseudo referendum on Brexit and I refuse to pander to that.

I couldn’t care less if you judge me for that. I’m satisfied that was a good reason not to participate.

I agree with you OP

Spoiling your ballot is counted and does send a message.
No it doesn’t. It can mean you weren’t careful enough and didn’t read the instructions on how to fill in a ballot paper. Not turning up sends just as much of a message.

You can’t win. If you vote ‘the wrong way’ you are thick and should never have voted.

What actually happens in terms of accounting for those spoiled papers? I recall being told that they are just discounted as 'apathy' but I've also heard differently in that they're allocated to the incumbent government. I don't know what to believe, that's why I vote and why I comply with the instruction because every vote counts somewhere.

I wouldn't trust the government not to abuse their position and use slight of hand to achieve the desired outcome.

People have a right to vote.

But they can also exercise their right not to vote.

I only despise people who don’t vote because they can’t be bothered. If they don’t like the choices offered then fair play.

I agree with this. I always make sure that I vote, but if I don't find any of the options acceptable, I will spoil my vote in a way that makes it clear that I have deliberately done so. I know I'll get lumped in with those who made a genuine/stupid mistake and it will only be lowly clerks who see what I've submitted, but what else can I do? If enough disgruntled people turned out and spoiled their ballots, it would send a very clear message:
65% of the turnout spoiled their papers = undeniable mass dissent;
65% of the electorate didn't turn up at all = maybe don't particularly mind/care/understand either way.

If a new acquaintance with very strange tastes (and no phone or other easy way of making contact) has invited you to their home for lunch; however, on speaking to mutual associates, you discover that they only ever eat and thus offer guests two options - a crap butty or a turd baguette - what would you do? If you hate the idea of all available options, you can essentially do one of three things:

1. Turn up, choose one disgusting thing over the other disgusting thing and hold your nose and gulp;

1. Not turn up, leaving them completely in the dark as to whether you're protesting against options which don't meet with your approval, you forgot, you missed your bus, you got lost, you're feeling ill, you felt guilty letting them treat you so generously - could be anything whatsoever;

1. Turn up and tell them that, whatever their reasons for inviting you, their suggestions are utterly disgusting, and that their grotesque idea of what would be in any way acceptable to you is right off the scale - then bid them farewell and sharply leave.

Just to play devil's advocate here:

I wonder how many of the people who bitterly criticised elderly people for voting for Brexit, on the grounds that it was chiefly the younger generations who would end up suffering as a consequence of their vote, still believed it perfectly fair for themselves, as UK citizens, to vote in the European elections and have any say in how the EU would be governed, even though we're currently in the omnishambolic process of leaving the EU and so will not have to bear the long-term consequences of any actions made by our elected EU representatives in the relatively short meantime.... ?

Maybe some of those who didn't vote in the recent European election deliberately didn't do so for this exact reason?

I find it frustrating when people choose not to vote, but I don't despise them.

I would like voting to be compulsory, as it is in many other countries. I would be quite satisfied if people had to go to the polling station to tick a box saying 'I don't wish to vote' - the act of turning up, making the effort and saying 'I don't want to' would make people think about it more, IMO.

What actually happens in terms of accounting for those spoiled papers? I recall being told that they are just discounted as 'apathy'

I don't know for sure - I'd assume that they're discounted and the votes not allocated to anybody; anything else would be undemocratic in the extreme.

However, I fail to see how anybody could possibly consider somebody making the effort to turn up at the polling station, signing in and submitting a ballot (whether with a validly completed, accidentally voided or deliberately spoiled voting form) as in any way demonstrating 'apathy'.

I'd venture to suggest that those people don't actually understand what the word means at all.

The problem with compulsory voting is that there is usually a fine involved if you do not do so, there are certain publications etc that would not be happy with this.

These threads usually pop up around elections, and it more often than not is people thinking that all the non voters would have voted the "correct" way.

I would like voting to be compulsory, as it is in many other countries. I would be quite satisfied if people had to go to the polling station to tick a box saying 'I don't wish to vote' - the act of turning up, making the effort and saying 'I don't want to' would make people think about it more, IMO.

I'm not sure I personally agree that it should actually be compulsory, but I 100% concur with the suggestion of a hypothecated option for people who want to make their voice of dissent and unwillingness to accept any of the proposed candidates/parties manifestly clear. It's such a simple and obvious solution that I'd suggest it wholly undemocratic not not have this as a standard mandatory option for every official election.

Everybody would be a winner, surely? All spoiled ballots could then legitimately be assumed to be the result of genuine error and not a sign of protest, so nobody - leading parties, fringe parties, lobby/pressure groups or voters - could claim otherwise in support of their own agendas.

Despise no, but think very little of them.

If its because they cant be bothered. People who like pp simply cant get behind anyone I understand, likewise those who are in refuges and cant register.

the act of turning up, making the effort and saying 'I don't want to' would make people think about it more, IMO
How condescending! People think when they want to think because they think doing so will make a difference.

I don't vote because I believe all politicians are only in it for their own personal achievement. Who would want to run any country nowadays when whatever your position, a large number of people will think you're shit.

The day I believe someone is there for genuine altruistic reasons, whatever their party is the day I'll make the journey. I don't forsee it to happen anytime soon.

I didn't vote for two reasons.

1. I'm not registered to vote. I will register to vote when I can do so anonymously and when my details can never be found out or sold.

I didn't care if they threaten to fine me as I'm still not giving them my details.

Lots of people in my situation can never and will never vote yet still remain politically engaged.

The woman's aid hard won campaign does not go far enough in the circumstances allowing you to register to vote anonymously and I have no trust in any of the institutions meant to keep the data safe.

2. my religion asks us not to vote but to choose God and to vote with our non vote by putting our trust in him. Ie by having Faith......

“. I will register to vote when I can do so anonymously and when my details can never be found out or sold. ”

You can already.

I'm not registered to vote. I will register to vote when I can do so anonymously and when my details can never be found out or sold.

Whilst I accept your situation, being able to vote anonymously is a huge slippery slope situation.

With BertrandRussell on this. You always hear the amount of spoiled papers called out at the start of a results announcement. Imagine if the number of these was the same or more as one of the main parties. That would definitely mean something. To be fair, I’m not sure what.
It’s the act though isn’t it? Having lived in a developing country as a child, I still to this day cannot get over my sheer good fortune to live in a country where I can go freely to a polling station and not fear guns, or worse. It’s a right nobody should take for granted.

I voted in 2016 and again on Thursday, but I'll be honest, I nearly didn't on Thursday, and that's because I didn't really understand what I was voting for or why. I'm not unintelligent or lazy, I'm degree educated with quite a responsible job, I just find the whole thing quite confusing and complicated. And if I do, I'm quite sure there are lots of other people in the same boat who didn't bother in the end.

“Whilst I accept your situation, being able to vote anonymously is a huge slippery slope situation.”

But you can. Your details are held anonymously and not revealed. All you have to do is explain why you would be at risk.