Local schools shutting at lunchtime on Friday? And what do I do about childcare?

[WhiteWavingCat]

Is this common?

Seems the schools here are starting between 5 and 10 minutes earlier. Then the primary schools have cut lunch by 5 minutes and have no lunch break on Friday to then close at 1pm on Fridays. High School has cut morning break completely and lengthened lunchtime by 5 minutes (gone from 40 mins to 45 mins) but is still shutting at 1pm on Friday with no lunch break.
All bar one of these schools (6 in total) are academies, the none academy is religious and run by a local religious group.

Is this normal? And am IBU to think it’s ridiculous? Not just because it saves costs (I assume no meals on Fridays saves £££s) but the missed education. And what about the families who rely on Free School Meals? What happens to those children on Fridays?

Also we live in a town with several rural villages around who bus the children to schools in our town, surely the very young children (8 years and younger) can’t be left alone?

This actually worries me as I am single parent and my DD starts school in September. Her school only runs After School Club on Tuesday and Wednesday as it is, and my working days are Wednesday – Friday, I cannot change this as it works around her dad. But what the hell do I do with her on Fridays when I have no help? Her dad has her EOW Sat morn – Sun teatime but works 2-10pm Fridays, she’s currently at Nursery until 4.30pm Friday but they have all their spaces filled from September (which is understandable) and don’t run an after school club. Her dad will be having her Thursdays after school and her gps on her dads side will have her if she's ill and neither of us can but they're emergencies only.

My work cannot change my hours as I’ve had to change them this year once already. What the hell do I do? I have family nearby but they’re not reliable so I am literally stuck with giving up work or trying to find a job that will let me leave early Fridays which I don't want to do as I love my job and it saves my sanity at times

As an aside, in countries where the school hours are much shorter and holidays longer, do the teachers have shorter days too and do they get paid for holidays?

Yes it wasn't meant as advice to the OP. I was simply suggesting as other we're talking about politics, I meant as a country we should re-evaluate how we educate our children and prorogued our needs.

That should have said prioritise our needs.

Yes the teachers have shorter days, they teach for less hours and are not required to be in the school if they have no classes. The teachers were required to have a masters degree and are highly respected. I didn't ask about their holiday pay so I am not sure.

The children start a lot older, have a lot less homework as most of it is done in class, as they have smaller classes the children have the benefit of more attention from the teacher. They have more breaks and are taught fewer subjects but in more depth.

I think we could learn a lot from them, but our society is very different in our attitudes, so obviously would not be exactly transferable

Sounds a perfectly reasonable idea in theory - but the Governors would want to charge full market rate for the premises. Which is likely to be more than the equivalent of a tenner per kid in a primary.

Get a childminder or use a club. School isn't daycare for your kids it's school.
Personally I'd love it if the kids here had Friday afternoons off, schools are so focussed on numeracy and literacy now thanks to the government that everything else is falling by the wayside and the kids need time to play. My 6 year old has just done SATS - who in gods name actually believes that there's any benefit to testing 6 and 7 year olds.

@WhiteWavingCat have the schools started doing this already? If so-get on the local Facebook page for your area and I bet you will find out quickly what other working parents do in a Friday afternoon. I bet things are already in place.

If it’s starting in September (I wasn’t sure if it’s already happening or not) people local to the school will start putting plans in place for Fridays.

I have an idea. Support staff form a business. Schools hire out the building, equipment and resources to the support staff on a Friday afternoon. Parents charged £10 a session. After costs, support staff share the profits. Everyone happy.

That sort of thing is actually pretty likely, I would imagine. Using the school hall or dinner hall area maybe-like an AS club.

Phleb spot on.

Unless things have changed recently, I don't think it's lawful for maintained schools in England to do what is being described.

As far as I'm aware, Regulations say that they have to open for 380 sessions a year on 190 days and that (other than in exceptional circumstances) there have to be 2 sessions a day, separated by a break.

In addition, the School Teachers' Pay and Conditions Document (which applies to maintained schools in England and Wales) says that teachers' 10% PPA time has to be taken during the school's timetabled teaching week, so it can't be taken on a Friday afternoon if there is no teaching timetabled to take place then. Obviously, if teachers get more than 10% PPA time, the bit that is additional to the 10% can be taken on Friday afternoons when no teaching takes place.

The op says the schools involved in this case are all academies do they can do whatever they like

Yes, all except one were academies. Not entirely clear what the status of the 6th is.

But it's clear from other posts that this is a common practice and other posters here might be facing the same scenario in maintained schools.

I have an idea. Support staff form a business. Schools hire out the building, equipment and resources to the support staff on a Friday afternoon. Parents charged £10 a session. After costs, support staff share the profits. Everyone happy.

They'd need to register as an ASC. Do DBS checks for staff. If they were being paid they'd need to deal with tax (with everyone already having a job it would probably be needed). They'd also have to deal with lunch.

There's also the crossover issue. Children finish bang on the bell, staff rarely do, so what happens when the support staff are caught up with something, but the children are waiting? Unless you have extra staff (which is an issue when they are paid) your ratios are fucked in that circumstances.

Its a great idea, but as someone who runs a volunteer led ASC it's not actually super easy to do.

Sounds a perfectly reasonable idea in theory - but the Governors would want to charge full market rate for the premises. Which is likely to be more than the equivalent of a tenner per kid in a primary.

This is also a factor. We currently pay £35 per hour as our group is viewed as a not for profit as everyone is involved on a volunteer basis and only ever get out of pocket expenses rather than a wage.

It would be considerably more if there was profit.

Regardless of who runs it and how, there's money to be made. But unfortunately it won't be the support staff who earn the big bucks! That was just my dream. In a school of 500 primary pupils if just 100 signed up for Friday afternoon (and lunches would run as normal as it's just PPA time in question at the moment) then gross income would be £1000 per Friday. After expenses the school would show a hefty profit. And expenses would be negligible as they already pay for support staff and buildings so a few legalities and they're quids in!

this was a thing since i was at primary school (scotland) and I'm 42 now, my dc's school closes at 12pm on a friday.
A childminder will be able to help, and maybe tax free childcare can help with the cost

Given that the asc doesn't run every day as it is I would guess that there's already not a high demand at this school. My experience (run several asc in an area with half day fridays) is that demand for the Friday is significantly lower than it is through the week as anybody who can flex hours, condense, work 4 days etc takes a friday off.

There simply might not be the demand to make a friday asc session viable

Schools can't afford to run , dont blame the schools vote for a party that supports education!

Schools can't afford to run , dont blame the schools vote for a party that supports education!

I have to say, I agree. Things will only get worse and it’s not the fault of the teachers, heads or support staff.

Schools near me have got KS1 classes of 36 as they simply can’t afford to run smaller classes. It’s breaking the legal class size limit, but there is just not an alternative.

As a teacher I'd say at the moment that I genuinely don't know which party that is , at least not which one with any viable Westminster future. Look how the LibDems let education down when they got a sniff of power.

Everyone piling in with "school isn't childcare" is just so mind-numbingly tedious

The OP knows that school isn't childcare. But if you live in an area where all schools have always operated between 9am and 3pm, 5 days a week then it is completely reasonable to arrange your working pattern and any wraparound care according to the expectation that they will continue to do so. If that suddenly changes, that presents working parents with a problem. Saying it's a problem (because it is!) doesn't mean you're abdicating parental responsibility or that you view the school as childcare.

But we all accept the changes brought by cuts. Why aren't parents demonstrating about schools closing down, changes to hours, children being taught by unqualified teachers, large (and illegal) class sizes. The government are in disarray. Brexit is taking the focus whilst everyday services are broken.

As education staff we are shut down for moaning and the 'long holiday' issue is always raised if we try and campaign. Come on folks, you are letting the government destroy education. This is your children's future.

Why aren't parents demonstrating about schools closing down, changes to hours, children being taught by unqualified teachers, large (and illegal) class sizes

Probably because those affected most are in no position to demonstrate, they're already working all the hours to cover childcare, can't afford time out to demonstrate and risk sacking. Too busy scrimping just to feed their kids and avoid the food banks. God.forbid they end up on Universal Credit or they'll risk homelessness, destitution and suicide.

The conservatives beat those that can't speak up. The ones that can speak up won't because they voted for the conservatives and are happy benefits are cut and the poor are getting screwed, it's their own fault for being poor.

There was the most civilised protest you have ever seen when a load of headteachers staged a march and protest last year, taking some governors with them.

The trouble over the years is that headteachers have tended to be more moderate and accepting in their views (and apparently more likely o vote Tory than other teachers!) than their 'militant' staff (in Mumsnet speak, moaning) so there has been a tension there. But now that their budgets are being so heavily hit and it is no longer political arguments about how to teach and what to teach (SATs aside) they have woken up.

I can't say their march achieved much. This government has been determined to blame the public sector for financial problems and been equally determined to make sure the public sector feels the bite of austerity. A man (some crony of Nick Gibb) said he could solve school spending issues and came into many schools and declared the most ridiculous things you could ever hear as ways of saving money.

Here you are :

schoolsweek.co.uk/limit-pupils-lunch-portions-to-save-money-say-agnews-cost-cutting-advisers/

I think you'll find in this article a current government 'adviser' telling school to slash teaching hours to save costs along with many bizarre suggestions.

While school isn't childcare, childcare is structured around school hours. It is regulated. If you don't have a convenient family network, a working parent has a tough time and frequently lacks the social network around school life to contemplate calling in favours to strangers to look after their child. We have a culture where children are not trusted to be self sufficient until quite late compared to other countries. All of this creates a chilcare gap which is where OP now finds herself.

OP, is it possible to switch your Friday to a Tuesday where childcare is provided and the shorter standard day?

In my final year of teaching, between DH and I we were working 100+ hours per week. DS's TAs went on strike due to their salaries being slashed. Thank goodness my y13s had just finished their courses so I could pick up at DS's lunchtime on my gained time... teaching y10 and y9 with a 5yo was... erm... interesting... DH was abroad. His family are abroad. DM works full time 200 miles away. DGM is too frail to drive 50 miles to where we are. I didn't know any parents at the school gate because I didn't meet them when DS was the first in wrap-around in the morning and the last to be picked up each day. Without a support network it was just too bloody tough on top of a tough job, so all round it was better for family life to walk away from teaching and be a SAHM. That's obviously not a universal solution to other people! Where there is too little demand for childcare, it does not exist.

That is exactly what’s happening around here. Not just replacing a £39k UPS3 teacher with a £22k NQT, but getting rid of them completely and using support staff.

Academisation means that heads have a lot of freedom to do things that really aren’t very good ideas.