To be baffled by Morrison's ID policy

[Babyfacemortified]

I am really at a loss to understand what I have just experienced. Very minor in the scheme of things but I have been left with a lingering uncomfortable feeling.

I made an unplanned stop at my local Morrison's store for a bottle of wine and didn't have my purse with me, just my bank card. So I didn't have any ID with me but I am 33 years old and was dressed for work in business wear so it never crossed my mind that I would be asked for it, even with challenge 25 as I am 8 years over that but to my amazement, I was asked. In many ways, very flattering. This isn't the part that annoyed and bewildered me....

I previously worked in that store for 5 years (starting 16 years ago) and am still on good terms with many of the staff, including management. It's a small town so I still chat to my former colleagues when I see them and keep in touch on Facebook. I didn't have ID, so was refused the sale. This is fine as for whatever reason, the checkout assistant was not confident that I was old enough to buu alcohol.

I asked whether a different member of staff on another checkout could serve me as they would know for a certain fact that I am old enough but was told rhat no, that is not possible and the assistant refused to let me take the wine to another checkout or call a supervisor.

The people behind me in the queue were really nice, as they could obviously tell I am clearly well over 18 (and 25, unfortunately) but I still felt really embarrassed not to mention disappointed at having to leave the lovely Malbec I had been looking forward to!

On the way out, I spotted a supervisor I used to work with and explained the issue to her, told her I realised it was totally my own fault for not having ID but I really did fancy a glass of wine and had a friend coming the following day so could do with something in to offer, so could she aerve me on her checkout but she also refused. She said that although she knew my age, it would be against the law for her to serve me now that her colleague had questioned my age!

Surely this is madness? I absolutely respect the right of the first checkout assistant to refuse if she isn't satisfied that I am old enough, as the consequences of serving someone under 18 can be very serious, but if another checkout assistant and supervisor knew that I was in my 30s they can't be prohibited from serving alcohol can they?

Name changed as very outing.

goodwinter - my DD works in a large supermarket, but repeatedly tells us that she uses common sense when assessing whether someone needs IDing, unlike some of her colleagues. Not all supermarket staff have no common sense, and they aren’t all on minimum wage - she earns above it.

I can't speak for the people your DD works with, but I've had experience in retail and hospitality and I would bet you that her colleagues aren't choosing not to use common sense; they're likely being over-cautious because of how heavily it's drilled into you that: there will be secret shoppers, and if you fail, you'll be disciplined or fired; and if you fail to follow policy and get caught serving someone under 18 accidentally, not only will the company get fined, you'll get fined too, and then you'll be fired.

I accept they're not all on literally minimum wage, but they still tend to have poor job security as everyone working in a supermarket, bar, etc., is easily replaceable and they're all very aware of that.

My local Sainsburys employs people with learning difficulties. In that context, some of the things said in this thread are not just rude and abusive, although that's bad enough; they verge on disablist.

Also true! There's a guy who works the checkout at my local city-centre Sainsbury's who has a learning difficulty. I've been buying cigarettes there for years, and more often than not, he's the one that serves me. He asks me for ID every single time. I don't mind at all because he's doing his job.

@goodwinter

Lets not assume that supermarket workers are poor little meek mice incapable of standing up for themselves shall we?

Nor are they on Nmw or are necessarily poor, there could be other household income.

And in any case, if they are dismissed for selling alcohol to someone in their 30s, which is a clear case of unfair dismissal, they can join usdaw for next to nothing and get advice and representation that way.

Nope happened to me. Think they need to see ID once they’ve asked for it. I just left it and wasn’t bothered.

@BarbaraOfSeville Sorry if you think I'm being patronising. I'm speaking to my own experience with the culture of insecure retail and hospitality jobs. I've never said anyone working in these jobs are poor, but yes, they're likely to be on a lower than average wage.

In the jobs I've had experience with, there's a certain amount of discretion at point of sale where you make a decision whether to ID someone. If you, or a colleague, asks a customer for ID, at that point you can't go back even if you then realise the original request was overly cautious. That tends to be company policy and I'd be surprised if you could claim unfair dismissal if you don't follow it - but I'm not an employment law expert! Just someone who's worked in the industry.

And in any case, if they are dismissed for selling alcohol to someone in their 30s, which is a clear case of unfair dismissal, they can join usdaw for next to nothing and get advice and representation that way

Amd without ID they have no idea they are in their 30s do they. They only have your word for it which does not stand up as a defence if you are reported by someone.

I've id'd people in their 30s who looked 12. Ive also not Idd someone who looked over 21 and during the conversation/transaction it transpired it was actually his 21st birthday that day so really he should have been ID but he looked older

It can be hit and miss and it is embarrassing when they turn out to be thirty something but if it stops one 17 year old getting served illegally then its done its job.

There are signs and badges and God knows what alerting people to the think 21/25 policy. When people walk in and get all surprised they are ID then that's on them. Usually the phrase "ffs not again" is muttered . So in other words you have been ID in other places multiple times and still carry nothing.

Who's fault is it really

My 19 year old tried to buy a bottle of wine in morrisons . They asked for Id which he provided. They then asked his 16 year old brother for his id. He said ' I don't have any.. it's not my wine"They wouldn't sell the 19 year old the wine despite him proving he was perfectly legal.Bonkers.

How do they know that the 19 year old's not buying it for the 16 year old though?
NOT saying he was, just that they don't know he's not, do they?!
If they both look young enough to be ID'd, I can see why they'd be cautious selling to either of them.

I haven't read the full thread but this wouldn't have bothered me at all. I would have just left and gone to the next nearest shop that sold wine.

I've id'd people in their 30s who looked 12.
Don't be silly who it there 30s looks 12

HAJ86 "As a current employee of Morrisons I can inform you that it is policy to follow the challenge 25." "It doesn't matter the age of the product you are buying"

What on earth do you mean by that last bit?

I got IDd for paracetamol in Sainsbury’s too, and I don’t drive or go abroad so no ID at all anyway (have tamed the staff at the local pubs so they all know me and will serve me regardless). I was in no mood to deal with their crap about it, no legal limit and the sanitary towels should have pointed out to the lady at the till why I needed them so I left and got everything elsewhere

It's not to piss off customers . Its because some people look a damn sight older than they are. A think 25 policy dramatically reduces the chances of an under 18 being able to buy age restricted products a 17 yr old could under some circumstances pass for 19/20 . They wont pass for 25 I'm.most cases.

Both my boys could pass for anywhere between 19\25 (they are 17&20) I have no issue with them being id'd and nor do they (even though they never are). But the vast majority of 40+yr olds cannot be mistaken for an under 25yr old. If it was the odd occasion maybe, but it seems to becoming more regular which would indicate that the staff have not had adequate training. Maybe it's time everyone has to show Id then there's no ambiguity at all.

I've id'd people in their 30s who looked 12

If you cannot differentiate between a 12yr old and a 30yr old you seriously need more training.

Don't be silly who it there 30s looks 12

Well obviously not quite 12 but I've had some very very surprising outcomes

There ate some very baby faced people about. To the point where you are desperately trying to look for clues it's a fake ID.

Usually these people are well aware they look young and have it with them.

The 18 akd 19 and 20 year olds tend to carry it. It's the 21-24 year olds who kick off. They are well aware of every store policy in the town I think they fancy a fight tbh. Who goes to the trouble ok knowing they look young, taking a photo of their ID or taking it out then leaving it in the car,unless you are just after the confrontation.

It's done on purpose

But in this thread we are talking about people that are well over 30 being refused service, not those who are 19-24. That's why people think the policy is being badly implemented.

Maybe it's time everyone has to show Id then there's no ambiguity at all.

I'd be on board with this. No ambiguity. No room for manoeuvre. If you buy an age restricted product you show ID. I'd rather that than never know how it's going to go.

There'd need to be clarity about buying with kids in your party though. Either you can't buy at all with children in the party (like they can't go in betting shops) or the adult with ID is sufficient and if someone in the party has ID you can sell to them and responsibility passes.

Just have clear easy rules.

But if they arent showing ID then how do they know they are in their 30s ?

If the policy is think 25 in most places then yes that will result in people who are 30 being id'd.

Staff are not allowed to take the customers word for it. They need proof.

Sone people look young. Some people dress young. When you walk in a store with your hood up sunglasses, or a base ball cap on backwards, or those grey joggers or jogging bottoms which are particularly very frequently worn by the younger people. ( and no that's not a dig people are of course free and should bloody wear what you want) but judgement if someone age relies on the whole picture of how they look.

So yes you may walk into one shop in your work gear and be served no problem. Pop into the garage on the way home with a hood up , no make up and a pair of sunglasses and you may get a different response .

It can be very hard to judge . Its really not personal though.

This argument comes around quite often.

Challenge 25 is an important policy to have, not every looks their age, some look older, some younger. The person who has to judge that may judge older or younger than their colleague.

They 100% have to ensure they are not serving under 18s. That's the illegal bit. So asking everyone that appears under 25 is a great way to ensure they capture any possible people who perhaps look older than they are (a 17 year old for example who looks more like 22).

As for non alcoholic ciders or wines etc, these absolutely count in needing to be IDd. Some are above 0.5abv which is low alcohol, not alcohol free (has to be 0.05 or below to count as alcohol free). It is however morally ambiguous to sell these items to someone underage as it promotes drinking. That's why the challenge 25 still applies to those items.

Different councils and local authorities will have different expectations of license holders, so some Insist on challenge 21, some insist on challenge 25 before they will grant a premises permission to sell alcohol. The individual selling the product can be fined up to £5k as can the manager. Multiple failures can result in the license being revoked, which as you can imagine would be reasonably easy in a supermarket if there weren't strict policies in place.

It's not a personal attack on you, and being a dick about it does not inconvenience the cashier, they don't care who's stood in front of them, they're paid to sit there regardless. Your just inconveniencing the people behind you in the queue because you failed to bring ID.

I'm a license holder who's council insists on challenge 25, I don't care if you hate me when I wont serve you at the bar, I'd rather keep my license, thanks.

My mum was asked for ID in her 50's

They 100% have to ensure they are not serving under 18s. That's the illegal bit. So asking everyone that appears under 25 is a great way to ensure they capture any possible people who perhaps look older than they are (a 17 year old for example who looks more like 22).

This argument justifies asking someone who looks about 22 but could be younger for ID. It doesn't justify the interpretation of the 'challenge 25' policy to mean asking people in their mid-thirties who might possibly pass for 24 if you squint a lot. Even if you genuinely believe they look younger than their actual age, there's no way you think they could be 17 but looking older and it might therefore be illegal to sell them alcohol. There's a big difference between judging someone as 25 at the oldest, or 25 at the youngest, and asking people in the latter category for ID is unnecessary and quite silly.

That's what bothers people. And the lack of common sense - not serving someone even when you know their age because you went to school with them, or in case the alcohol is for their 12 year old son who is with them. Or misinterpretations of policy - failing to accept a legitimate photo identity card proving a person is 30+ because 'it has to be a passport or driving license', claiming it's actually illegal for under-25s to buy alcohol, and other similar nonsense.

The policy applied in a sensible way - asking people who appear to be in their early twenties but might be an old-looking 16/17 - isn't what most people are objecting to.

It's not a personal attack on you, and being a dick about it does not inconvenience the cashier, they don't care who's stood in front of them, they're paid to sit there regardless. Your just inconveniencing the people behind you in the queue because you failed to bring id

If that were the only problem it could be got round. Being unable to do my shopping (and yes I almost always do online but why should I have to?) as a 50+ disabled person who needs my 17yr old with me to help and being told I can't buy a bottle of wine because I might be giving it to him is, frankly, ridiculous. The only person who should be id'd is the person paying for the shopping. What I do with it after i leave the store is none of their business. Especially since it's perfectly ok to go home and let my 12yr old (if I had one) have a glass.

Without asking for Id nobody can be certain of age. Test purchases get younger and older people to try to test the process is getting actioned. The operator will always side on caution. They do not have a quota however th challenges are monitored to ensure some are done. For example if I myself sold to someone underage but I'd thought they looked old enough, they can use the fact I have previously done refusals as a defence to help me keep my job or lack of refusals to back up my dismissal.
As for my comment earlier about regardless of the age of the product... If we sell a dvd that is a 12 rating, or lottery that is 16 or fuel which is 17... The challenge is still the same. If they do not look 25 we are still to ask for ID. Which as a operator is embarrassing as you can see someone is over 12 but looks under 25. But that is our job. For which we tend to end up with verbal abuse and unhappy customers. Quite honestly we don't get paid enough to put up with that crap. We have a job to do so allow us to do it.

So much entitlement.......
As long as you get what you want, when you want it - sod the retail assistant who could receive a police caution, fine or disciplinary procedure.

I got asked ID when buying Jack Daniels Barbecue Sauce 😂
Like what did they think I was going to do? Neck it to get sozzled. Gives a new meaning to 'being on the sauce'.
I was 28 at the time so slightly puzzled.

For those of you moaning that the problem is with the ID’ing of those over 30 - take a look around a large group of strangers. Can you predict their ages? Yes? Quite confident? Every single individual? Now consider that your job/livelihood and a potential police record depends on your 2 second judgement. Still absolutely sure? Or is it safer to ID - just in case?

I don’t think people understand the repercussions for retail staff if they get this wrong. In my company there is a challenge 25 policy, and we are regularly mystery shopped to check we are asking for ID. The people they send in are over 18, so by serving them you are not doing anything illegal. But if you don’t ask for ID you get either a final written warning or instant dismissal depending on how long you have been there. And if it is a police/trading standards visit it is a fine and even potentially a prison term! I’m sorry but I am not going to risk my job incase I offend somebody.