Or should we change tact in how we try to close the gender pay gap

[Buccanarab]

A lot of discussions about the gender pay gap seems to centre around getting more women into tradionally male roles, usually STEM, but in my experience and opinion, these roles aren't inherently better or more enjoyable than tradionally female roles, they just pay more.

So would it not be better to focus on trying to increase the salaries of the tradionally female roles to match the male ones?

For instance a teacher or nurse are at least as valuable (arguably more so) to society as an engineer or computer programmer so they should be paid comparable salaries.

Would it not make more sense to pursue this outcome than to continue trying to force women into roles that are deemed superior or am I completely missing the point?

Women need to stop marrying men who are older than they are...then you won't lock in the women being the ones it makes financial sense to go part time or have time off around children.

I totally agree that work done by women should be paid more in general though.

A nurse earns half that of a train driver - can anyone justify why that might be?

I also agree with honeylulu. For all the pronouncements about flexible working, part-timers are often seen as not pulling their weight etc and there is only so much you can do if you have clients, manage a team etc. I do wonder if job shares are the way to try and combat this but that model brings other problems.

Tact not tack

tact goes down well, too

As many previous posters, I also see the gender pay gap as a consequence of free choice.
My male work peers are either childless, or have a sahm wife. To get the same level of flexibility as a single parent, I have to have a nanny, at which point it does not make financial sense to have a career.
I am in middle management, and I fully accept I won't make it any higher - the next rung is where you are expected to be able to terminate your holiday because of urgent corporate needs, or travel to another office with 12 hours notice. Not possible. It is not because I am female, though.

nurse earns half that of a train driver - can anyone justify why that might be?
Maybe because the lives of hundreds are in the train drivers hands at a time.

The women who are not mothers don’t get promoted like they should either in my office. It’s not just to do with motherhood.

I would like a top job, thanks. I am also the only woman to my knowledge who has ever taken maternity leave in my department - and my kids are 19 and 15. That is ridiculous!

Divorce laws shore up this gap BTW as there is a built-in assumption that one parent stays home to raise children and allegedly supports the other in earning more. So many women profit from staying home.

dana not really....a nurse has far more direct responsibility for life than a train driver. Almost all of their job is automated.

Men aren't reducing their hours to suit childcare arrangements because it doesn't usually make financial sense to do so. My husband has a good job and we're on fairly similar salaries (I'm a teacher at the top of the scale) but my pay is capped now unless I progress to leadership. I work part time because we would be significantly worse off if it were the other way around as DH gets a bonus.

The gender pay gap is such a tired old myth. Different people make different choices - who knew?

It’s not about how useful a job is. It’s about how difficult it is and how many people are qualified. I’m training into a traditional Male industry because it pays more. Msybewomen just need to learn to be more sensible in their career decisions.

@dana because the train drivers strike at the drop of a hat

boggles I completely disagree. You need a couple of GCSEs to be a train driver...you need a degree in nursing to be a nurse...they are both life or death jobs with antisocial hours.

The reason train drivers are paid more is that train driving is a male typed job. Its mechanical and historically only ever done by men. Meanwhile nursing is a female typed job. Is is about caring and dealing with people and has historically been female work.

The NHS may only now be beginning to understand that people (even women) won't do a job that complex if they get paid peanuts.

The inequality is properly built into society and it can't be undone by a few women making different career choices.

I thought there wasnt a pay gap until women reach childbearing age and then as soon as they have kids their careers stall while mens carry on.

In my opinion, if women weren't the default parent and it was more normal for men to take time off for childcare or rearrange their job to fit around children for example, then it wouldn't be one parent taking a major hit on their career, both parents would take a slight hit, and there wouldn't be as much of a pay gap.

For this to happen though, companies need to promote flexible working and lead by example from the top (senior management working condensed hours for example), men need to step up and see their children as half their responsibility and also women need to encourage this (eg see sharing paternity leave as a positive thing as men will become closer to their children, rather than a negative thing - eg saying they wont heal properly from birth or be able to breastfeed if they dont have 12 months off, and stop seeing it as giving up 'their' maternity leave that they deserve for giving birth).

For this to happen though, companies need to promote flexible working and lead by example

I see what you mean but the trouble is many/most businesses are driven by demand. If client wants round the clock service then firm needs to provide it. If it doesn't then plenty of other firms will.

Silvercuckoo: "I am in middle management, and I fully accept I won't make it any higher - the next rung is where you are expected to be able to terminate your holiday because of urgent corporate needs, or travel to another office with 12 hours notice. Not possible. It is not because I am female, though."

Of course it's because you're female. Because as a woman, you make different choices and your average corporate environment is not set up for that. Men make the decision to drop everything at the drop of a hat, including holidays. They do that because they are men. But why is the default requirement for these roles that you have to have this traditional male mindset whereby you are not tied down by family or other commitments?

I think you should prove it exists first...