Or was the cyclist with a death wish

[warthogworrier]

So I'm an experienced driver but fairly new to London driving. I'm always very conscious of cyclists and until today likes to think I was extra courteous to them...

I travel a route regularly where I turn right into a road and then about 60m later turn hard left. As I turned right I noticed there was a cyclist coming up behind me. I was worried she hadn't seen that I was turning left, so I went extra slow and checked in my mirrors for a sign that she had seen (ie either that she was going round me on the other side or had slotted in behind me if she was also turning left). Instead she didn't slow at all and completely undertook me, signalling only that she was turning left literally as she passed me. If I hadn't slammed on the breaks (albeit I was going very slow) I would have hit her, as the road we were turning into is quite narrow and has cars parked on it (so there isn't room for both to turn at the same time).

Being honest I was pretty furious but did I misjudge this ?

so we have no choice but to use the pavements part of the time

Of course you have a choice. Get off your bikes and push.

I cycle AND I drive. I pay road tax too (before anyone chucks that old chestnut in). I don't skip lights or mow people down on zebra crossings or cycle on the pavement (unless it's a designated pedestrian cycle share pavement of which there are several in my city and where i can guarantee i will be shouted at by an enraged pedestrian who hasn't seen the stupidly small blue sign.). I also don't go onto public forums ranting about how all car drivers speed, turn left without indicating or aggressively tailgate me and beep their horns and yell get out of the fucking way--. Some cyclists are idiots as are some car drivers ....
Op, did you indicate that you were turning left? If so they were in the wrong.

Most cyclists are equally car drivers and pedestrians and have all 3 perspectives. Most car drivers, don't ride bikes and are entirely myopic in their perspective e.g. don't even notice where there are/are not cycle lanes and where they end

Hettie I think car drivers who cycle should pay less tax as they use their vehicles less

Sounds like the cyclist may have been an arse!
Just a couple of thoughts:
If you stopped then maybe they thought you were letting them go first? I dislike it when people are 'courteous' and don;t follow the highway code usually. Nervous / uncertain drivers too. I usually give them a lot of space!

I wonder about your road positioning - was there a cycle lane? it might be worth thinking about positioning more to the left to be more obvious that you are turning in left.

But sound like you didn't do anything wrong. No crash, everyone unharmed. Maybe they feel that they could have done something better too.

OP it sounds like the cyclist was riding dangerously, good job you saw her.

@GoFiguire

Drivers are self-absorbed entitled self-righteous arseholes. I once got knocked over by a driver who expected me to stop at a green man so that he could continue his journey through a red light. Naturally I didn’t move out of his way and BAM. Did he stop? Did he f*.

@ChloeBella90

I can’t srand drivers - it seems they are a law unto themselves and most of them that I see have no awareness of cyclists, pedestrians or traffic lights!
They expect you to see them and work around them but heaven forbid they actually have to read the road themselves!

I cycle every day in London to commute and I see all kind of morons on the road, be they cyclists, pedestrians, cars, buses and vans. BUT the majority of us road users (yes it includes cyclists too) abide by the highway code. Stop generalising please.

I'm not so sure she didn't see you indicate.

Instead she didn't slow at all and completely undertook me, signalling only that she was turning left literally as she passed me. If I hadn't slammed on the breaks (albeit I was going very slow) I would have hit her, as the road we were turning into is quite narrow and has cars parked on it (so there isn't room for both to turn at the same time).
I got a finger shoved at my windscreen and a "fuck off" when I later passed her

It sounds like she wanted to get past you before you made the turn so you wouldn't slow her down on the narrow street (where she couldn't get past you).

Exactly whatevermission Ive been driving and cycling for over 25 years. I think I have a pretty good perspective of what good driving and good cycling looks like given that I have only ever been involved in two accidents. Once in a car when someone drove into the back of me because they were drunk and speeding, once my bike when someone opened a car door without looking. This morning on my bike I was on a road and preparing to turn right. I looked over my shoulder and there was a car behind me about 80 m away the junction was about 30 m ahead. at this point I was on the inside track and needed to move to my right to position myself. I gave a very clear and resolute right hand signal and was utterly ignored by the driver who as I started to Move Right Words accelerated towards me. I indicated with a right hand signal very firmly and clearly again and continued my right hand turn at which point the driver had to slow down in order to let me complete my manoeuvre as he would have had to do if I have been in a car by the way. For this entirely sensible and reasonable piece of road use I got hurled abuse. I am not quite sure what a nurse the car driver expected me to do. I do think perhaps that some car drivers who have never cycled simply don't understand how other road users use the road.

I don't understand how the cyclist was being dangerous.
Cyclist is turning left. Cyclist sees you are also turning left but you are slowing. Cyclist comes up inside you to turn left, indicates, and turns before you.

As a London cyclist I shudder every time I see stuff like this. Not indicating, undertaking, left turning on the side of a truck, weaving between cars.

I am massively in favour of cycling licences in London. You have to do a short course and then get issued with a licence. A lot of cyclists don't drive so they simply don't realise how they fit into the traffic flow or how they appear on the road in front of a car.

As the weather improved all the fair weather cyclists are out and I've seen some horrendous stuff happening today. I do stop inexperienced cyclists sometimes to tell them the bloody rules. Weirdly most people respond well to this - it's a learning thing.

As for "all cyclists" comment - DFOD.

I was mowed down by a woman who didn't look right when coming out of the side road (I was cycling on the main road). How do I know? She jumped out of her car screaming: "OMG! I just didn't look. I just didn't see you!"

I had Hivis on and lights and everything. Thankfully I ended up with bad bruises and scratches but she could have taken off my foot with the bumper if I didn't get my leg out of the way. It was brutal - all that metal and force of a car turning into you.

As I was in shock she managed to quickly isolate me from potential witnesses, and drove me home chattering all the way about how sorry she was. I was so all over the shop from shock it was only when
I called DH and he asked where I was and what happened I realised I should have called the police. I did in the end but should have called them there and then.
My bike was totalled and the woman stopped responding to my messages so I was left with a 500 quid worth of bent metal and no recourse apart from civil case in court.

Request to you all: if you see an accident involving a cyclist please stop and take pictures and offer support. It's invaluable as the cyclist is more likely to be the one in massive shock/hurt. I've assisted a couple of people: driver's fault in both cases and it was amazing how the drivers were trying to minimise, leave without swapping details and give fake phone numbers to a person who they just sent flying across the road. In one case woman opened her door into a cyclist coming down the road and tried to scream and intimidate him claiming it was his fault which it blatantly wasn't as I was right behind him when it happened.

I know all cyclists aren't the same but I'm increasingly thinking the majority are just not safe on the streets (and that it's therefore best to assume they are all going to behave badly!).

Assume this about all road users. As a cyclist, I always assume drivers aren’t looking in their wing mirrors, are unlikely to bother signalling before turning left, won’t look behind them before opening the car door etc etc. I’m usually not wrong When I was a child learning traffic safety my mother (also a cyclist) taught me never to rely on a driver’s signal - or lack of signal - when crossing a road. Cycling in London for over two decades has taught me always to predict bad behaviour from other road users. Clearly the cyclist was in the wrong here; however she was merely being inconsiderate (and later extremely rude) whereas if you get something wrong you have a significant risk of causing serious injury, or worse, to another person. With the power of driving a motorised vehicle comes the responsibility of constant vigilance and caution.

The attitudes of some people on here remind me there are a lot of people behind the wheels of cars who have no place being there . And no, of course cycling doesn’t save the planet; driving is well on its way to destroying it, and causes to the thousands of deaths from air pollution and children growing up with permanently stunted lung capacity, and contributes to the obesity epidemic. But sure, because there are cyclists who contravene traffic rules, it’s definitely cycling that’s the problem.

I know all cyclists aren't the same but I'm increasingly thinking the majority are just not safe on the streets

No, YOU are not safe on the streets. If you are able to justify nearly killing someone by saying you didn’t see them, then YOU are the problem, not the cyclist YOU “didn’t see.”

Was the cyclist in a bike lane? Because if so she wasn't undertaking - if she wasn't then she shouldn't have undertaken

An unpopular opinion but I do think cyclists should have to take a test to be able to cycle on the road.

Especially if they don't drive.

@userX surely the point here is that the OP did see the cyclist, no?

OP whether it's pedestrians, cars or cyclists I just assume everyone is an idiot and is going to do something stupid.

I had 2 car accidents last year, one a car cut out in front of me and I braked because I was paying attention to the road, new driver behind me wasn't and went full force into the back of me.

2nd was a Yodel driver, pulled out of a lay by as I was driving past him, I tried to avoid him and tooted, he was completely oblivious to me existence and drove right into the side of me.

So yeah, I just assume everyone is going to be an idiot and drive appropriately.

I would be in favour of that (at my secondary school we were allowed to cycle to school unaccompanied only once we’d passed our cycling proficiency test) but the reality is it would lead to fewer people cycling, and more drivers is more dangerous than more cyclists even if the cyclists are clueless... Cycling tests offered in all schools would be great though!

I’m in the screw most cyclists brigade and I don’t drive. I’ve been hit several times, one dislocating my shoulder, by those who view shared paths as time trials. Ding the bell expecting you to shift to the dog shit filled verge so they can power through. Been near misses at pedestrian crossings as they ignore red lights. Had one refuse to move his bicycle into the bike rack on a train so more people could get on, meaning I missed the train (only one for an hour)

alefailtrail I definitely think there should be a hierarchy of duty of care. Cyclists definitely need to take care/give way for pedestrians

It’s unwise to undertake on the inside of a moving vehicle. If I was cycling behind a car and I was keeping up with their speed or they were slowing down and I was catching them up, I’d cycle in the middle of the lane to keep my road position, regardless of if I was about to make a left turn.
Even if there was a cycle lane, it’s a bit mad to undertake.

I'm fairly sure cyclists are legally allowed to undertake regardless of a cycle lane. I'm not saying it's sensible but it is legal. Obviously if a car is indicating it's extremely daft to undertake it.

But it's why when I'm driving I always check my left wing mirror as the last thing I do before I start to turn.

OP sounds like your driving was safe, you should just feel pleased with yourself that your good driving enabled another road user to remain safe on the road and leave it at that. If you had hit and killed that cyclist, the fact that she was in the wrong would not be any consolation to her family.
The cyclist may or may not have been in the wrong, but either way, at no point were you in danger from their behaviour so there's no need to feel angry or upset about what happened.
The onus is always on the person who chooses to drive the ton of metal box, even when other road users are cycling or walking in an inconsiderate manner. If no one drove cars the roads would be far safer, regardless of whether all cyclists run red lights or all pedestrians step out without looking. Deaths would be in the tens each year rather than nearing 1000.

Regardless of the legalities, I am interested in why OP attempted the manoeuvre knowing that the cyclist was coming up on her inside?

Cyclist went straight, you did a left turn. you should have stopped, quick visual check over your shoulder and should hsbr let the cyclist pass. it was the cyclists right of way - you did not go straight but did a left turn. yabu! shocked you are asking!

I think in this situation, whilst the cyclist was wrong to undertake, you share some of the blame. Your actions were unpredictable. It is not normal driving practice to slow down to a crawl before turning left. That is more the behaviour of someone looking for where they are going or who is unsure where they are going (even if you were signalling in good time, which from your updates you were). You acted in a way she did not expect. Also, as other PP have said, why did you continue your manoeuvre when you knew she was coming up your inside?

That said she should have slowed right down herself until your intentions were clear rather than undertake you. That’s just self preservation.