Could anyone help with this Maths GCSE question please??

[E1nste1n]

Thankyou - exam tomorrow!

good (re not in GCSE). I must have got confused somewhere. (Not that it makes any difference to DD or me.)

My son was AqA at gcse and didn't do differentiation but has done it now at A level

The answer is 108

Learning in and of itself is an outcome Outout, it isn't just a means to a 'tangible' end. And certainly the kids who are learning "that rubbish" could one day use it to carve themselves a very lucrative career in all manner of mathematic-based careers such as banking.

When, and under what circumstances, would anybody need to know this in real life?

Maths O level covered integration & differentiation when I did it in the mid-70s

Practical application: I managed to pass the first year of an economics degree without showing up for many lectures, because I understood the maths. Enough to pass the exams. Had a viva when the results of the first year exams were published, in which I was told that they would not throw me out since I had passed the exams. but to please show up to lectures in future.

Looking back, I wish I had realised that I was wasting my time, rather than, as I then thought, cleverly getting away with something. Sigh

@cantkeepawayforever
Thanks. My children are still at nursery / early primary, so all this is a bit new to me.
I am quite surprised that a school-leaving exam has two versions, or tiers. Do children decide themselves which level to take, or is it decided by teachers?

Calculus is NOT on the regular GCSE paper that the majority of students will be taking today. It is on the IGCSE which has a slightly different specification, just in case anyone has any students worried that they haven't covered it!

Wow. I got an A in maths and this I dont remember this...

It was on the O Level papers, scrapped for GCSE but put back on.

Silver

I could do these aged about 14, this is when the subject of calculous was introduced. I find it straight forward but if you have not come across the concept before it is hard to develop from first principles.

GCSEs are taken by all 16 year olds, from those with mild/moderate learning disabilities to those with genius IQ's.

When, and under what circumstances, would anybody need to know this in real life?

Designing ships and aircraft. Well if you want them to float and or fly.

Deciding how much concrete to put in a washing machine so it doesn't dance across the floor when in use.

Of course just learning maths because it is a beautiful subject and as a foundation to further study can be useful.

I used maths loads in my career as a scientific programmer, won't wasn't a waste of time learning differentiation for me!

Just on to give information on where ther countries would see these questions

So let me understand they are on the GCSE paper but for the higher level? Both of these questions would be seen on an ordinary maths paper in Ireland (we also have a higher paper) but at leaving cert level (A-level equivalent at age 17-19) the difference is though that unlike A-levels you have to pass ordinary maths to get into university (doesn’t matter if you intend on doing psychology) so everyone must get to a certain level as such.

Someone post some advanced Maths for our very own Einsteinsilvercuckoowho gets an A in goadiness.*
Ah, you're nice.
I am probably overreacting to the topic, having a doctorate in mathematics i.e. being an ultra maths nerd, but googled a "foundation" GCSE paper (which 50% of the population take at 16, right?) and thinking how the school leavers are going to compete for jobs with that level of knowledge in the modern world.

I did calculus for O level too.

I hadn't realised it was back in GCSE courses, after a long absence.

Well, I can remember a button sorting flow diagram in the maths exam I sat 30 years ago, which hadn’t stopped me gaining two degrees, so calm down. I don’t want GCSEs to be easy (they’re not) but can we please wait until they’ve at least taken them this year before we start telling kids who slogged through them that they should be harder?

Silver, it depends what you mean by 'compete for jobs'. The children taking Foundation maths aren't competing for 'maths requiring' jobs. They may be absolutely brilliant in other fields - so may go on to do arts, humanities etc at A-level and then go on to get first class degrees at university.

I can see that, in a country where maths is of a very high status within the education system - and therefore probably 'good jobs' within that economy have traditionally required high Maths because it is a measure of 'good students' - you look at Maths in particular as a measure of student ability and future potential. So your view is a product of your background, while the British labour market and higher education system is perhaps a product of its broader-based education system and philosophy.

My nephew with SpLD has to take Foundation Maths GCSE, and will have to continue to take it regularly until either he passes or he reaches a certain age. Doesn't stop him excelling both in the national athletics scene or in his chosen field of work - highly skilled, outdoors, specialist, requiring lots of further training.

Silvercuckoo students here are required to carry on in education (although not necessarily a school) until 18. So ping people will have education for a further two years after GCSE's, although obviously this might be more vocational

However as a 'maths nerd' you should know that it's not the level of procedural maths in a question that makes it hard or that makes it useful to a student's education but rather the problem solving element. Some countries train kids to a high level in procedural maths but with no applications (our students do statistics and some mechanics at GCSE) and no problem solving so they struggle to apply their maths to real life or unfamiliar situations. Which is pretty pointless!

Differentiation is not in the GCSE maths syllabus, and therefore this isn't a question that he needs to be able to answer tomorrow morning.

Further Maths GCSE does include differentiation.

Dootball it is on IGCSE, the international version, but not the standard GCSE that almost everyone takes.

Silvercuckoo may be a maths nerd, but apparently 50% of adults in the UK don’t have even the basics of numeracy, so they are severely hampered in the job market and even everyday life, e.g., managing direct debits etc.

I can also confirm the answer is 108.

You differentiate so that dy/dx (the gradient) is 0. This happens as +3 and -3. The k is irrelevant.

You plug +3 and -3 back into the original equation, and get the difference.

It is quite hard maths, as there are a few concepts you have to know quite clearly, but definitely a good level for an advanced GCSE student

It's on the iGCSE paper not the GCSE paper!

I thought that I'd add this (again!) just in case anybody worries that their GCSE child doesn't know what differentiation is. They learn differentiation during the A-level syllabus.

Good luck to all sitting the exam today.

silvercuckoo right so you know enough about Maths to know that you're an outlier and of course a GCSE paper isn't going to stump you. What exactly are you trying to prove here? That you're better at Maths than an average 16 year old? Congratulations.

My daughter did that course last year. To be honest the amount of calculus included in that IGCSE is pretty small - just polynomial differentiation and the concept of maxima and minima. I suspect many (most?) who are taught it learn the procedure mainly by rote and don't really master the underlying concept - which perhaps makes it a bit pointless. I agree with those who suggest that the original question posted would have been one of the harder ones on the paper.

The next two questions posted I will be copying down as review for an A level student I'm tutoring as they are areas he is still weak on ...

Thankyou for all the helpful comments. He had the exam today and said it was “fine.”

Silver cuckoo - I’m not sure why you would feel the need to come on this thread, on the eve of thousands of 15/16 year-olds taking an exam which they will have been working very hard for, simply to feign surprise at their curriculum bring “too simple.”

If you claim to be a maths Phd, well why not give us a clue as to the answer?

As for your comment that this maths question -

“Just reinforces my decision to escape when my children are approaching secondary school age”

I’m sorry, but how smug and pretentious is that? Not to mention premature. If your DC are still primary age, you have no idea how they will fare on any maths curriculum.

Education is more than maths, you know. At my DCs school there are the mathematicians for sure, but they certainly don’t see themselves as superior to the many talented artists, debaters, writers, musicians, sportspersons - you name it. 30% of them will go in to Oxbridge and maybe that number again to Ivy League or top medical schools / drama schools / art colleges, etc etc. They are encouraged to find their talents wherever these may lie and certainly not forced into the STEM box. I can assure you that this “too simple” maths curriculum is hardly holding any of them back from a UK or international perspective, Far from it!