To ask you to educate me about politics and the NHS?

[Februaryblooms]

Having a chat with a friend of mine about healthcare and how fortunate we are to have the NHS (I've recently received alot of care during a hospital stay)

He's passionate about politics whereas i am admittedly very uninformed and not educated on the subject whatsoever which I aim to change.

He's having a rant about the government wanting to privatise the NHS and saying I'm lucky because if that had already happened then I wouldn't have received the urgent and life saving treatment I received, because I'm not somebody who can afford private health care, and I would have in effect been left to die

If the NHS did become privatised, what would happen to the sick and disabled living on the breadline or in poverty, can they really be refused treatment because they don't have the money to pay privately?

Is all of this a possibility or is he just scaremongering?

"The Tories are going to privatise the NHS" has been claimed throughout the 40+ years that I have been voting...........

That’s because various Tory politicians keep saying they want to privatise the NHS, BMW6.

He's very pro labour and anti tory, he's absolutely convinced that the change to the NHS is imminent.

I really need to educate myself on these subjects so I don't worry needlessly whenever something like that comes up.

OP...I can’t really envisage a system that is designed so that people who can’t afford to pay will be left to die. But, I can see a 2 tier system developing, and I can see people ‘falling through the cracks’, a bit like with the benefits reforms.

There are 2 aspects to it. One is using private companies eg Virgin to run NHS services. This won’t work, because the private sector puts profit first, and so the patients and workers suffer in favour of shareholder dividends.

The second is access to services, ie requiring insurance to get treated in the right way at the right time.

I’ve worked in politics. I am current lot an NHS employee. I’ve been saying for years that there needs to be a public conversation about what the NHS can and can’t do and how much funding it needs to do it. It is spread far too thinly (has been for a long time and don’t talk to me about the Brexit effect) and with people living longer with more complex conditions it cannot go on as it is.

We have private health insurance. There’s currently a 6 week waiting list for GP appointments and 13 for occupational health where I live. I pay £85 and go private when I need a quicker GP appt.

After what happened with the probation/prison service for low risk offenders being privatised and then reinstated back to a public service, I'm not sure the government will want to privatise such a fundamental service.

Haven't they already privatised areas anyway? Things like providing food/cleaning/security?

I work for an education centre for the council and we pay to use their HR...even though we work for them? Bloody complicated madness!

I did think it sounded extreme for him to believe the poor (or those on low incomes) would be left to rot.

I suggested that if it were to happen (complete privatization) then perhaps there would be exemptions made for the poor/children/disabled etc. He said nope, everyone who can't afford private health care is screwed

He's currently sharing a continual steam of pro corbyn material on his social media so perhaps he's trying to drum up support in the form of shitting people up. Hmm.

I've always worked in or to the NHS and I would have said I never could see it happening. Now I'm not so sure. The government and arms lengths bodies (NHS England etc) are running it into the ground. It is practically impossible for a NHS organisation to make financial balance and even if they do they are then expected to contribute to their region to help create financial balance regionally.

It will get to the point someone in government will say 'we've done everything we can (which they haven't), the organisations can't make the efficiencies needed, the only way we can save our healthcare is for people to start paying (via insurance)'.

Private companies already hold many contracts in the NHS and they do a shocking job but so, so many of the Conservative government are profiting from these companies they keep pushing for more 'private partnerships'. All that ends up happening is that money is taken out of the system and a poor service is provided as the private companies try to make profit.

For those saying they can't imagine it creating an environment where the poor will suffer, look at America. It is always the poor that suffers.

It would be an utter shit show.

I don't think that the NHS is in imminent danger of being privatised. However, as a country we are not spending nearly as much per head as other developed countries on healthcare. Unless public opinion shifts towards being prepared to pay significantly more in taxes, then the number of treatments that the NHS will be able to offer will become smaller and smaller and having private health insurance will be seen as essential by those who can afford it. Everyone else will be left with the absolute bare minimum - emergency and cheap, outdated treatments basically. Privatisation by stealth.

He did reference America too actually, how some people there have never seen a doctor or dentist because they simply can't afford to.

It's a terrifying prospect, it would certainly leave me in the proverbial as a mother with two under 2 and poor health.

I'm going to look into the cost of private health care when I get back to work regardless.

To be honest often private companies managing or providing public services can end up in a better service and deal for the taxpayer. Eg weight watchers was found to be cheaper and more effective than in house nhs slimming services. A non NHS example is that the private sector build housing at about half the cost of the public sector.

Tbh I think your bf sounds like one of those dogmatic lefty types. I’m no Tory but really there is no actual proposal to privatize the NHS (although the Tory reorganization of it was tiresome and wasteful). Procurement of private goods and services where appropriate will mean we get better services at better cost which is good for all.

What is happening at the moment is a two tier system where more and more people go private to get better or quicker treatment.

Also having lived in a country with private healthcare though, if you can afford it, you get much better treatment than on the NHS.

Those of you with private health care, approximately how much do you pay for it?

As others have said, it's not imminent but I can see it happening in my lifetime more than ever before (I'm in my 30s).

My dream would be for the NHS to be de-politicised as the 4 year political cycle means the NHS is constantly in flux but I know that's highly unlikely!

Op bear in mind that even in the US, the vast majority of people have insurance via their employer and there is healthcare available for poor and elderly people (called Medicare and Medicaid). It’s not so simple as you get ill, you need to pay (although lots of plans have a copay). Again it sounds like dogma rather than a sensible analysis.

The standard of healthcare in the US is generally much higher than here and they have better health outcomes in many areas eg cancer treatment.

In the uk I have private healthcare via my employer- they pay but it’s not a lot in the scheme of things. But it’s cheap in the uk as it doesn’t cover everything the way it does in other countries where there is no NHS.

For the NHS to survive there will need to be a bigger take up of private healthcare for those who can afford it (either through work or out of their own pocket).

There is little appetite for even small charges to be made to see a GP, as it may stop those with less money from seeking medical attention when needed.

We are fortunate enough to get healthcare through work, and I try to use it as much as possible.

My son was listed for an operation on the NHS, and we had it done privately.

It was done faster, using a new technique not funded on the nhs, and it left a space in the NHS for someone else.

I'm not sure healthcare will ever be fully privatised in the UK as the NHS s so embedded, but the money only stretches so far and more and more treatments will be cut to enable basic services to continue.

"To be honest often private companies managing or providing public services can end up in a better service and deal for the taxpaye" not when you get to the multi-million pound outsource contracts. I've worked or been involved in many of them and they never ever make the savings or service improvements they say they will. Private companies constantly underestimate the NHS and the effort it takes to make it all work, they struggle to make profit and then they cut corners.

I've also worked in private healthcare, you might get a better environment and quicker care but you are usually getting the same Drs you get in the NHS and if anything goes wrong you have to be transferred back to the NHS. The care is no better. In fact, with things like physio, insurance companies pay private physio's such a small hourly rate that have to do shorter sessions with you to make a profit so in that case care isn't better.

In the place I lived with an entirely private system, my insurance was over £1000 a month for my family. My employer paid. Here I think my insurance is only £100 or so.

The long and short of it is that the tories always screw over the NHS when they’re in power, or at least have since I can remember. Anyone remember the long waiting lists and chaos of the 90s? Eerily similar to the situation today. Also, two words. Andrew Lansley. Look him up, completely flipped the way the nhs works on its head. Zero benefits to this but it has cost A LOT of time and money. It’s emblematic of the tories attitude to the NHS.

@mum I’ve used private healthcare in the UK and overseas and haven’t found any cutting of corners- quite the opposite. For example, maternity care, I was getting a dedicated dr and midwife plus more advanced tests not offered on NHS. Not easy to make a profit if your service is no good. I’ve had bad care on NHS but good care too. So I have to say, I don’t think the profit motive is necessarily harmful.

Good care at the best price is what I would like. I’m not interested if it’s coming from public or private sector.

One thing I would say about NHS is shocking management and administration. Everything from overall management to basic appointment management seems to be absolutely awful. The private sector does this much better.

The issue is the no1 cause of bankruptcy in the US is ill health.

The NHS doesn't need more money, it just needs to be run efficiently and be very very ruthless about what it will and won't cover.

I went from investment banking to working for the NHS and it was like stepping back 50 years in terms of work ethic and efficiency.

I doubt it will be quite so obvious as "the poor left to rot". What I think it's more likely is that waiting lists will get longer, services will be moved to regional centres (as they have been in some cases) making travel there too difficult or expensive, only basic minimal treatment will be available which might be too dangerous for some to have rather than newer possibly less invasive but more expensive treatments that would be available privately - there are plenty of ways that vulnerable groups could lose out on healthcare without it looking like an explicit choice by the government.