To think Elizabeth Bennett is shallow?

[WobblyArse]

Pride and Prejudice in reality:

He is a massive twat.

She changes her mind about him only when she sees his massive house.

The end.

Jane Austen 's works are NOT romantic fiction! Her novels are satirical studies of social behaviour that include romantic (and unromantic) liaisons, with happy endings for the good. The romance is the seasoning, not the main meal.

They work, because they are extremely funny in a clever way, because the challenges of social behaviour are universal and because we all love a little bit of romance.

btw, it is DARCY not D'ARCY!!

I typed that and then changed it.

Sorry!

I'm blaming the school trip with 60 X 5/6 year olds and the two gins since I got back.

Oops!

@pemba

actually I think it was a fan fiction author / sequel author who said that rather than Jane Austen herself

I think after the 2005 movie a lot of people think that Darcy is shy, probably because Matthew McFadden played him as slightly vulnerable. Austen's Darcy is not shy, he is a haughty, proud, judgmental snob who doesn't take the time or trouble to give attention to people he considers beneath him.

Deadringer, you speak like a woman who was spurned by Mr Fitzwilliam Darcy at the Netherfield Ball

Darcy’s cousin admits he has to marry for money too as the second son.

Yes he tells her this in a very subtle way so we get the impression he's being pragmatic but kind 'I do like you but I can't afford to like you'.

No, she’s not shallow. If she were, she would have accepted his proposal the first time he asked her. She was gullible in accepting Wickham’s version of the truth without question, but by then she was prejudiced against him and inclined to believe the worst about him.

I don’t think it was seeing his house that changed her opinion (it was reading his letter that started the process), but she saw a new side to him in his kindness towards his sister and the way he treated his staff.

Thallo I love him despite his flaws! God it must have been awful to be always on the lookout for an eligible man, it was that or poverty for most women. I have some sympathy for Mrs Bennet as I get older, (having 4 unmarried daughters myself ). She isn't as daft as people think, annoying though she may be, she predicted rain, and Jane's stay at Netherfield, and Mr. Bingley falling in love with her. Mother knows best!

@Jaxhog Daphne du Maurier was also dismissed as a 'romantic novelist', because she was a woman. In her own words, the only romantic story she wrote was Frenchman's Creek. I can't imagine how anyone could describe Rebecca as romantic! Sexist critics I expect.

I agree Austen is a satirist and social commentator above all else.

Jane Austen 's works are NOT romantic fiction!

The romance elements of the novels are central, pivotal etc in the novels and completely dominate when they're dramatised (which irritates me but nonetheless is how most people experience JA novels).

The novels generally end when the heroine gets together with the hero, when the romance is fulfilled; with often just a short wrap up of everything else.

JA was a satirist and social commentator, but she did so through the 'medium' of romance. The development of the romantic relationship between the heroine and eventual husband are the core of each novel.

• is the core

Great novellist, her dialogue was so good.

Mr Bennett: financial fuck up then doing fuck all about it. Looking down on his wife and daughters, except Lizzie and Jane.

Loved Matthew McFadden’s Darcy - looks and mannerisms of my first serious boyfriend! Colin Firth’s too. But agree that book Darcy was less appealing.

I loved Matthew McFadden's Darcy having not expected to. He does vulnerability so well it melts my heart.

I resisted watching the film for as long as I could, in protest that anything could match the BBC one When I finally gave in it wasn't anything like as bad as I thought, although I can't bear Keira Knightley (in anything).

I always see the BBC characters when I read P&P now. Alison Steadman will forever be my Mrs B. I think she's fabulous. What I love so much about that version is how the dialogue is almost entirely in Austen's own words. I think she would have been a film/TV script writer if she lived today. As would Dickens!

I don’t think Charlotte had as bad a life as people think. As pp said, she went into her marriage eyes wide open. Not only was Mr Collins a respectable man in a respectable profession, he was lucky enough to have a very rich and influential “boss” in Lady De Bourgh. As Jane herself pointed out, he might have been silly and pompous and a crap dancer, but he wasn’t mean or cruel or a drinker or gambler or womaniser, as per other “evils” shown in Austen’s books.

Charlotte saw the opportunity to secure a comfortable future as head of her own household, with every expectation of future crumbs from her husband’s patron. I think the prospect of the future Longbourne inheritance was an unexpected, additional bonus, rather than a primary aim.

Also, JA clearly showed us she had her husband wrapped round her finger. I think once she’d produced an heir and spare, she’d have found a discreet way to withdraw from the marriage bed and found satisfaction in her family, household and duties as the vicar’s wife. Jane and Lizzy got the fairytale endings, marrying rich husbands for love, but Charlotte got the compromise ending that many women had to face in real life.

Charlotte was savvy and encouraged Mr Collins to exhaust himself gardening

The Keira Knightley film version has such gorgeous cinematography and lighting design that makes it a pleasant watch even if some of the actors don't quite suit their roles.

I'd have married Mr Collins in Charlotte's position. I imagine that she'll devote herself to her children as time goes on (it's mentioned that she enjoys looking after her poultry). Mr C. is solvent, respectable and as pps have said, not a wife-beater - probably the sort of man who'd do anything to secure his wife's comfort, within the limitations of his own abilities and self-awareness.

Thanks OP, I found one of my copies and reread today.

Day we'll spent.

DH isn't feeling well so I may have a plan for this evening too...

I'd probably have married him too and hoped and prayed that any offspring took after me rather than him.

To be fair Charlotte was no great looker either. I reckon she was sensible enough to have an heir and a couple of spares, given childhood mortality rates. She would grit her teeth and think of a comfortable old age.