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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To remind you about NI

158 replies

NowforNI · 16/05/2019 18:36

There’s been a lot of discussion (and condemnation) on these threads about abortion laws in Alabama.

We still don’t have safe, legal abortion in all of the UK. 28 women a week have to travel from Northern Ireland to the mainland because they do not have access to the same medical services as women in the rest of the UK, despite paying for the NHS through taxation.

Women’s reproductive rights and autonomy over their own bodies are worth fighting for - please consider emailing your MP to keep this on the agenda.

Thank you!

nowforni.uk/#email

PS I’m not formally linked to the Now for NI campaign, I just think it’s bloody important

OP posts:
TheVandalsTookTheHandles · 17/05/2019 07:02

DonDadaOnTheDownLow the Abortion support Network helps women access abortions safely and helps with travel expenses.

DonDadaOnTheDownLow · 17/05/2019 07:46

Thank you TheVandalsTookTheHandles - I've set up a monthly donation. :)

It did occur to me yesterday that I was horribly upset about Alabama and yet this shit is happening just a couple of hundred miles from my home so I'm glad I can help local women in some small way.

bellinisurge · 17/05/2019 07:55

It's quite revolting that the DUP want NI to be treated exactly the same as the UK. Except on basic civil rights. And yes, I know it isn't only the DUP that have done this. Fake consensus by patrician extremists.

fairweathercyclist · 17/05/2019 08:32

Women from NI can come to England for free abortions too

Can they? I thought they were denied them because of devolved NHS administrations? I do know that Chester hospital was saying it wouldn't take patients from Wales for example (not for abortions, generally, because of lack of funds, so they're saying they can't afford to).

I agree the law in NI is a disgrace and the Westminster's government's lack of responsibility even more of a disgrace. But that's their attitude to NI for you. Lets trigger Article 50 before we've sorted out a constitutional problem in one of our constituent countries. It's just another example.

RedForShort · 17/05/2019 08:45

Also the outrage over is reactionary. It will die down. NI is effectively static, campaigning is hugely getting momentum and it's a huge uphill exhausting struggle.

Campaigners in ROI didn't win on the back of a few months effort. Nor was it a few years. It was decades and gaining supporters and keeping people supporting.

BogglesGoggles · 17/05/2019 08:50

A reminder to those of us living in the England and Wales jurisdiction that abortion isn’t legal here either. If you don’t live in NI you can still make a positive impact by setting a positive example. Get in touch with you MP and let them know that abortion is still andalwats will be an important political issue and you want to legalise the right to an elective abortion.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:03

I don't understand why it would be so awful to vote for Sinn Fein, if you feel passionately about the right of women to abortion. What are their other policies that you don't agree with? I know they want a United Ireland, but other than that, there policies seem quite mainstream. They're very much campaigners for the poor in society, so maybe not as capitalist as some might like, but I think you need to look at the policies that are most important to you and vote on that basis.

I don't agree with every policy of every political party, but I vote on the basis of which policies mean the most to me.

It almost feels like you want Westminster to do something while absolving you of any responsibility for your own future. I don't mean this in a patronising way, but it's the only analogy I can think of, but it seems like NI is like a child who wants Mammy (Westminster) to sort everything out for her. You've got to grow up and fight yourselves. Ireland did, by raging against the machine that is the Catholic Church. There was massive campaigning internationally, with a group set up called #HometoVote whereby Yes voters would have flights subsidised if they still had a vote - proof was required in the form of their name on the register and a copy of their flight bookings. Priority was given to Irish in Europe as subsidising one flight from Oz or Canada could have subsidised 5 or 6 European flights. The other massive shift was that the College of Surgeons or some other medical council, put their weight behind campaigning for a Yes vote, whereas previously they had not taken any stance. Therefore you had doctors involved in debates, who hold a lot of respect in the minds of ordinary people. We also had a few pretty tragic cases of teenagers who were victims of rape, and women having to travel to Liverpool or Birmingham to abort their baby who was not compatible with life.

All of this massively aided the vote. I think the result from the gay marriage referendum encouraged a lot of young voters out of their normally apathetic bedrooms to vote.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:07

I also know that Mary Lou McDonald (the leader of Sinn Fein) is a massive pro-choice activist. If there was a loophole whereby they could get Westminster to do something, she'd have found it. It's a pity really that they're vehemently opposed to taking their seats in Westminster, but what can you do.....

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:08

She frequently gets thrown out of the Dáil in Ireland, so I'd pay good money to see what ruckus she'd cause in Westminster Grin

They wouldn't know what to do with her! Hee hee.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:09

It may well be that NI is not experienced enough yet at ruling from home. It took Ireland 100 years as a Republic to really come of age and sort its own affairs out.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:34

OP, all last year I was on a number of Pro-choice FB groups. It was a good platform to rally support. Have you anything like that in NI yet?

Would you contact a pro-choice politician in NI to ask for their assistance in setting up some sort of campaign group within NI itself?

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:35

If you could garner support and arrange rallies or similar, you might persuade public opinion and political opinion.

MindyStClaire · 17/05/2019 13:41

It's so hard to understand just how entrenched the green and orange thing is here until you've spent some time living here I think. I'm not from here originally, but I've been here about 10 years, my thoughts would be (and obviously this is speaking very generally, lots of individuals won't fall into these boxes):

  • I don't think either side in NI hates the other. But I do think each side is genuinely terrified of the other getting a stranglehold on governing.
  • This is fair. Catholics have seen the discrimination they faced in the past. It's not hypothetical for them, it's (very recent) history.
  • Working class unionists have in some ways been the big losers of the peace process. They had a stranglehold on a lot of industry, but now employers are (rightly) expected to employ from both sides of the fence and those industries are struggling too. There isn't a culture of education in those communities (because there was no need in the past) and so whole generations are floundering. They have simultaneously seen working class nationalists prospering post peace process.
  • If either side gained significant control, the other would (justifiably in my view) think "That's it, we're fucked". And I'm not talking in terms of whether NI is part of the UK or ROI, I'm talking in terms of employment, housing, funding etc.
  • So people don't necessarily vote for the DUP or Sinn Fein, they vote against the other. Both the DUP and SF have been very very skillful (and not in the slightest bit subtle) in cultivating this attitude.
  • Obviously, reproductive rights are just one issue that people vote on. Even as a pro choice woman in my child baring years, it's not the first issue on my list of reasons to vote for a candidate or party, so I can't expect it to be on others'. That doesn't mean I don't care deeply.
  • SF is the most obviously pro choice party here, but there is the oh so small issue of their connection to the IRA and which means many will never ever vote for them, regardless of anything else (I'll happily declare myself in this category). (Oh, and Mary Lou would not cause a ruckus in Westminster since a) she's from Dublin and thus unlikely to run for a seat in the UK and b) wouldn't take her seat as part of SF's abstentionist policy, but I suspect you know that asdou.)

Basically, life in NI was very hard for a very long time in a way that those of us who didn't grow up here during the Troubles just can't understand. It has unsurprisingly left the place a bit fucked up, and actually I think NI should be really really proud of how it's fighting to progress, and to grow. It is a fantastic place to live and I would hate to leave.

Expecting NI to legislate for abortion is just too big a step right now. It just is, there's too much else going on, it's too emotional, everything is too fraught as it is.

Westminster could step in. It would be the humane thing to do.

Patronising comments about how women in NI should do something about the laws (oh gee, why didn't we think of that), or stop voting for the DUP (see above) don't help. Nor do comments about how NI should "get over itself" (as I've seen on here before) - it's basically a whole country with trauma.

What would help, is talking about how British and Irish women living in NI don't have access to healthcare that their sisters in the rest of the UK and Ireland do. Lobbying Westminster to step up. Demystifying abortion (seriously, it's just not talked about here, ever). Patronising shite about how NI women bring this on themselves and that it was GB who can take responsibility for repealing the 8th in ROI helps absolutely no one and completely ignores the political and historical reality in NI.

MindyStClaire · 17/05/2019 13:42

Would you contact a pro-choice politician in NI to ask for their assistance in setting up some sort of campaign group within NI itself?

Do you really think such a thing doesn't exist? Seriously?

FlaviaAlbia · 17/05/2019 13:46

Gosh, I'm glad you didn't intend to be patronising asdou. I'd hate to see what you'd have said if you did.

The fact that you can claim that we're watching for Westminster to sort it out while apparently not having the faintest clue what actually does happen on the ground and in the courts here doesn't exactly help your intent.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:50

@MindyStClaire

Mary Lou has a seat in Westminster as far as I know, but refuses to take it. Happy to be corrected on that.

That's she's a Dub doesn't stop her causing havoc in Dublin!

She's been thrown out of the Dáil more times than I can count.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:54

But you're asking us to help you while simultaneously rebutting any helpful suggestions we're offering!

We're not experts on NI and you can't expect us to be. YOU are. You're the ones who understand the situation. You're the ones who should know how to campaign for change given your particular set of circumstances. If pro choice campaigners from Ireland or the rest of the Uk marched into NI with campaign posters, there would be bloody uproar. So again I ask - what do you want us to do?

MindyStClaire · 17/05/2019 13:55

asdou why on earth would Mary Lou have a seat in Westminster? Like, seriously, why on earth would you think that? She's from Dublin, she runs in a Dublin constituency for the Dáil. Are you confusing her with Michelle O'Neill? Who also doesn't, btw, she is an MLA and would be sitting in Stormont if it weren't for that whole clusterfuck.

But Mary Lou, no. I highly doubt she's ever run for office in NI.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:56

You repeatedly tell anyone from outside NI that we can not understand it, then shout at us when we declare that we don't understand it. Confused

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:56

Could be Michelle O'Neill that I'm thinking of.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:57

I know SF have seats in Westminster - that's my point.

asdou · 17/05/2019 13:57

I doubt you know who the Irish politicians are!

MindyStClaire · 17/05/2019 13:58

You repeatedly tell anyone from outside NI that we can not understand it, then shout at us when we declare that we don't understand it.

You could listen to women in NI rather than declaring you know the answer. Look at the NI activisits and see what they advocate. Lobby your local politicians to advocate for women in NI.

AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 17/05/2019 13:59

@happyhillock what grates on me is that any woman in the UK has to travel to access a service that is provided free on the NHS, which they pay towards. It reduces the availability to those who can travel. I don't begrudge anyone travelling to the nearest possible place, I don't understand how anyone can.

asdou · 17/05/2019 14:00

Provide us with that material then and I'll take a look.