To think my mentally ill sister would be better off in the UK?

[Catslovepies]

Name changed for this as its outing.

My sister and I are dual US/UK citizens. I live in England and she lives in the US. She suffers from bipolar disorder and has been unable to hold down a job. She has no health insurance and our father has been supporting her - however this cannot continue as he is elderly and going broke. If she stays in the US they could both end up homeless.

AIBU to think that she would be better off in the UK? She could get treatment, a small council flat (in the northwest near me), benefits, and support to return to work - couldn't she?

I have no experience with the benefit system or mental health provision as I haven't needed either of these - I am very fortunate to have a good job and good mental health. So it is difficult for me to advise her. I know under austerity there have been a lot of cutbacks but if she came over and stayed with me for a while would there be help available to her? I cannot support her indefinitely but I can provide temporary housing and food. Thank you to anyone who can advise, we are pretty desperate.

Has your sister ever lived in the UK?

She might be better off in the sense that even the most nightmarish stories people tell about the levels of support and treatment available in the UK are orders of magnitude better than the commonly accepted norms in the US.

Either way though this person is going to live off and disrupt the lives of any relatives who will have it, maintain any false claims of illness they have going on if that is happening, abuse substances and kill themselves if that is what they ultimately want to do, wherever they are, so I would caution any idea that they will definitely be better off by changing their location at all. It might not be worth doing until some way forward can be established.

Surely if she is making your elderly father broke and ill - and could literally be the death of him - it's up to you to take over now anyway.

Was going to say the same as Nanny23 she may well get assessed and deemed to have a personality disorder/substance abuse problem which would not quality her for a care co-ordinator/access to very stretched secondary services.

Many bipolar dx are rescinded, often rightfully so as a lifetime of having to take mood stabilisers is not good, especially if not even the correct treatment.

The fact she's told you she identifies as a psychopath would personally not incline me to bring her over and make her my business quite frankly!

My adult son has severe mental health issues and has received almost no help other than a psychiatrist appointment every three months. He is now unable to work or negotiate the benefits system, does not take his medication and is living in a homeless hostel. He has lost all his friends/family. In constant trouble with the police, in his desperate wish to get help he wants to get arrested when he would be able to ask for a mental health assessment. He desperately needs sectioning but the authorities do not want to to do this (money being the issue I think). Until now I did not realise the complete lack of help and support that was available. Two years ago he was holding down a job/relationship was independent financially, then he got ill...

We have tried every possible avenue to get him help, but there is almost none. Please think VERY carefully about bringing your sister over here, because in my current experience there is almost no help at all.

OP she will NOT be ENTITLED to PIP it depends on how her health affects her.

I have bipolar! Along with fibro, hyper mobility syndrome, b12 deficiency, a heart murmur and back problems from a car accident which I’m awaiting surgery for. I only get standard mobility PIP- £90 a month.

It is not easy to get especially when you mental health changes. It’s horrible. So please do not assume she will get anything. I see my psychiatrist every 3 months or 4 weekly when unwell- it’s still not enough for PIP. They lied so much on my assessment that I won’t go into as it will turn this into an essay.

She could also be waiting a long time for social housing, especially if she has a safe place to stay- your home. If you threw her out she could be bounced between B&B’s and hostels until a place is found, possibly years down the line. Imagine what this will do to her mental health.....

You need to think seriously- can you support her for a long period of time before she finds her own accommodation? By this I mean years. The changes of her finding a private rental who accepts housing benefit is slim these days unfortunately. I was waiting for 3 years for a housing association property, considered vulnerable because of my health and I also had 2 children. The housing is just not there. Those that are single and have mental health problems are often waiting the longest according to the last report I read.

AngeloMysterioso
I feel sorry for your sisters situation, but I’m honestly not sure how I feel about the suggestion that somebody should move here for no other reason than to access free healthcare, housing and benefits that she hasn’t paid a single penny towards.

I have to agree and think you will find it a much tougher proposition than you imagine. Has your sister ever lived in the UK?

I also agree with kaffkooks pages back.
Mental health care in this country is appalling, waiting lists are long, when you do get to the end of the list support is short and minimal.
One of the emergency services programs did an episode on this not so long ago. People were literally causing their selves serious harm because they were so desperate for someone to help them :(

My sister hasn't paid taxes but I pay a ton of tax, my mother and stepfather pay tax, her grandparents paid tax, etc. I think part of why we pay tax should be so that our family members who are too ill to work get care. And many people who are too ill to work haven't paid taxes - should this mean they don't get care? Anyway, it doesn't really matter, I'm sure if anyone was in my family's situation they would look at all reasonable options.

Earlier when I said something about the cost of her asthma medication in the US without a prescription I meant to say without insurance (but with a prescription).

And can I just say a massive thank you to everyone who had posted trying to help.

I agree with others who ask why she should be entitled to use UK benefits, It is a national health service NOT an international health service. So what if you and your family have paid NI that still doesn't allow your extended family access!
The NHS is struggling to survive please don't help kill it off.

I'm not sure you grasp how woefully underfunded mental health care is in the UK. People wait years for even basic treatment, those who go to A&E in crisis have their wounds stitched up and they're sent on their way with no follow up, those with complex conditions are told they're untreatable and discharged.

I'm not suggesting things are better in the US, but don't think bringing her here will make things adby better. It won't.

I'm sure if anyone was in my family's situation they would look at all reasonable options.

I agree, but going off of what you have said this move doesn't seem like a reasonable option. The bottom line is if your sister won't engage and accept support, it doesn't matter where she is living, as nothing will change.

Our NHS mental health system is on the verge of collapse.

Services are dire, understaffed and waiting lists horrendous.

Recently I had an individual who was wanted to end her life and had made attempts to do so, police intervention... taken to the local hospital to be assessed however was not deemed critical enough to be admitted.

Was given a phone number to call to get an emergency crisis appointment... I called them, was given an appointment for 8th April 2020!!!!!

Thats someone who if left unattended will try and end their life!!! They are absolutely in cross.

When I protested they hung up!!!

Currently going through the complaints procedure to try and speed the appointment up.

Is your sister eligible for Medicaid in the US? That is an avenue to explore if she hasn’t done so already.

I don't think it is a given that she will get the type of or as much state support you envisage especially if she has been non resident for a while. Even British citizens do not have an automatic right to access public funds on return from living abroad.

A sister/daughter is not extended family. It's close family. And it's not service users who are killing off the NHS, it's the Tory government under austerity. But for those small minority of posters who want to use my family's situation to score political points crack on and I shall of course ignore you. To the vast majority of posters who are trying to help and advise, thank you, it means a lot.

And yes my sister has lived in the UK and worked here also, just not recently.

Although the US healthcare system is horrifically expensive there are some types of financial support available for certain groups of people. What insurance does she/ your father have?

She has no insurance. My dad has medicare.

‘Many councils have over 55 ex sheltered accomodation spare since they cut the wardens...’

My local authority’s sheltered accommodation has cut warden services to the bone, & the over 55s remain in situ with just enough support to be classified as sheltered housing. The housing has not been returned to general stock.

Catslovepies if we can give asylum to literally everyone who walks through the door (yes yes they don't get 'granted' but are allowed to stay anyway on human rights grounds ... then ABSOLUTELY your BRITISH sister is more than entitled !!

For context I prosecute foreign nationals guilty of identity and other frauds.. with NO right to remain... imprisoned for multiple frauds against the NHS, DWP, student loans etc etc.. in 15 years not a single one has been deported!
So I am incredulous at this hostility against a Britain national!

‘This is poor advice but also true; if she has manic episodes then it will be easy to get her into services- take her to A&E and she will get admitted onto a psych ward and they won’t be able to discharge her without sorting accommodation and social stuff.’

No, no & no not so....

A manic episode in itself will not get someone into ‘services’.
It is not ‘easy’ to get anyone into said services- resources are scarce & clinical thresholds are high & section criteria is determined by the Mental Health Act.

People presenting at A&E in MH crisis can be sent home if it not deemed clinically essential for them to be detained under MH Act.

UK psychiatric ward places are scare, & do not offer up places often.

Even people detained under MH Act can be released from hospital without secure accommodation allocated to them.

Have you got children? I refused to take in my younger brother who was bipolar as (he was already accessing support in the UK) when I first started looking into it I was told social services would have to be involved due to his erratic behavior and drink/drug problems. Have you ever lived with your sister when she is having a serious episode? The fear of coming home and not knowing what you might find, hiding pills/knifes /rope, days going awol with no contact, police visits, money disappearing. It may sound selfish but I beceowould recommend trying to help someone that doesn't want help, it's like living with a black hole.

I think it sounds like you might have to put yourself first op. Or you'll end up being responsible for her...

The NHS does not offer asylum.

The NHS provides emergency health care free at the point of need. This means that if you taken ill & go to an A&E department, you will be treated without anyone asking for any financial details or proof that you can pay.

The NHS provides free at point of use medical care for people who meet the residency requirements.

If you do not meet the residency requirements for medical care/non-urgent treatment, you can still be treated on the NHS, but you will have to pay. The NHS will recover costs from you.