Tenants’ rights AIBU - LL not giving us notice for people repairing flat

[LimaLemur]

I live in a rented flatshare with a live-our landlord at the moment.

Earlier, I answered the doorbell and it was a plumber coming to have a look at the flat. We’ve reported issues with the plumbing in the flat to the landlord several times, and the plumber’s visited before.

However, the LL didn’t give us any notice about this visit (and often hasn’t about previous visits either from prospective tenants - people move in and out of the flatshare every few months - or from people coming to do repairs in the flat).

In the contract for our flat, it says the LL has to give us 24 hours’ notice before anyone enters the flat, although she’s only given us this much notice once or twice. We’ve mentioned this to her before, and she’s basically said that she doesn’t care and that we can move out if we don’t like it.

Anyway, we found out from the plumber that he has a key to the flat, so can let himself in whenever, and none of our rooms have lockable doors (the LL came and made us give our room keys to her).

What are our rights in this situation if a stranger can let themselves into the flat whenever?

What your landlord is doing is illegal. Check out the shelter website, they offer advice by web chat too.

Google 'quiet enjoyment' this is basically the legal principle that sets out you have 24 hours notice for plumbers etc and also the fact that it is illegal for anyone to enter your property - this is the law and the law overrides whatever is in your tenancy anyway.

Sorry, I've had wine and may not have explained that very well 🙈

Just to ensure you get the right info, what is a "live - our" landlord?

Thanks all!

Sorry .Andromeida it was a typo it should read ‘live-out landlord’!

No worries @Limur. Unfortunately, the information above is incorrect as this only applies to tenants with an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. If you have a "Live Out Landlord" you do not have the same rights as you are technically a lodger, not a tenant. If they want to enter the room you're renting they can only do this within reason. However, repairs are different.

As well as being a LL, we also have a lodger in our home. The lodger, wouldn't have any right to dictate who we give keys to so work can be carried out.

Hope it gets sorted out OP, here's some more information.

m.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-flatsharing/rights-for-renters-for-tenants-and-lodgers

Yes what kind of tenancy do you have OP?

Are you getting confused between live out and live in landlords?! The definition of a lodger is someone who has a live in landlord. Sounds like OPs landlord doesn't live with her so she should have an AST.

Cross post, mine was to Andromeida

I’ve got an assured shorthold tenancy (not a lodger as the LL doesn’t live with us).

Watching with interest.

My son got home the other day to find that his landlord had been in his flat while the windows were replaced (he hadn't been told about it). While she was there she tidied up, put his washing away in his drawers and cupboard and read his post!

What redress do tenants have?

I’m not sure if I can report the LL to anyone for things like not giving us 24 hours’ notice and not carrying out repairs.

My flatmates and I have looked at advice from Shelter and Citizens’ Advice etc. but although what the LL is doing is annoying, it’s not major enough to be classed as harassment.

All our contact with the LL is by email, so there’s written proof of everything, but although she’s very direct and forceful, she’s never been threatening over email.

Once, when I first moved in, she phoned me unexpectedly at 9pm to complain about an email I sent her about repairs - she said she ’wasn't a hotel’ (as in, we as tenants can’t just expect her to pop round and do the repairs within a reasonable period of time and she felt we were being unreasonable for asking this) and she said the 6-month clause is ‘a mutual agreement that can be ended by the LL or the tenant’ (basically it sounded like she was threatening to evict me). I didn’t record the call unfortunately.

I can’t afford to move to a new place for now, but I’m just wondering if I can report her? I’n not sure who I can report her to.

Wow Decomposing maybe he should contact the council?

Apologies, I am incorrect. If you have an AST, then everything above my statement is correct. Typically, they'd just be called a LL not a "Live Out" Landlord.

OP, I'd also check that your gas safety, deposit etc. Are all up to date and correct. In my experience, if someone is breaking the law on one thing. They tend to break them on others.

When DP was renting, his landlord let himself into the flats all the time, and used to snoop through people's post.

I'd stayed over one night, before a day off, and was having a nice soak in the bath when the LL let himself in. The bathroom door was open and right next to the front door. LL got a right shock when I called out "Hello, darling, are you coming to join me?" thinking it was DP deciding to throw a sickie!

In all cases (OP, Decomposing and Lakie) it's harrassment
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/harassment_by_a_private_landlord

No problem Andromeda! :)

Good idea re: checking up on stuff. I know my deposit’s fine as I’ve checked it’s in a protected scheme (logged into the scheme site and could see it was there, and previous tenants have also received their full deposits even though they’ve waited a bit for them).

Gas safety isn’t applicable, as we’ve got an electric hob and don’t have a boiler (heating completely controlled by the management company who own the block of flats).

I emailed the LL about the plumber arriving at the flat with no notice, (to have it in writing for future records) and she replied with this:

“As I explained on the phone the plumber called me a few minutes earlier to say he is quite close to the flat and he could fit the part.

And I asked him to ring the doorbell and check directly with the tenants. As I reiterated on the phone that if it wasn’t convenient to turn him back and I would rearrange another time.

He did not enter the property without the tenants’ permission and I had warned him that the tenants were fully entitled to turn him back as they were not informed earlier.“

She’s really covering herself here. How do I show it’s unreasonable behaviour?

AnotherEmma

Thank you for that link.

@AnotherEmma is right

Anyway, we found out from the plumber that he has a key to the flat, so can let himself in whenever, and none of our rooms have lockable doors (the LL came and made us give our room keys to her).

and the above completely invalidates your contents insurance.

Agreed about the key situation. You have every right to a key to your room. She's just being unreasonable for the sake of it.

Could a tennant end the tenancy because of this?

Should I report her to the council?

Just a quick update - phoned the local council today, and they suggested I ring the council environmental health team and housing services about the LL.

I’ll call them on Monday to explain the situation with LL, tell them what it’s been like since I’ve moved in and ask if I have any grounds to report her and how to do it.

My flatmates (understandably) don’t want us to report her while we’re still living in the flat. They also don’t think there’s much that can be done even if we do report her.

What I’m hoping to achieve from contacting the council/Citizens Advice is for them to tell us whether we do have grounds for reporting the LL and what we can achieve from it.

Ultimately, I’d like the LL to be called out on her unreasonable and bullying behaviour - I’m not sure how likely this is though!

I’d like to move out but can’t afford it at the moment as I don’t have enough money immediately available for a new rental deposit (saving up for a deposit but will take time).

Hopeful bump - I just wanted to ask if you think I have a solid reason to make a complaint about my LL to the council and Citizens Advice?