Arghhh Brownies! Or am I the CF?

[Cellardoor84]

About 6 months ago my daughter decided she wanted to quit Brownies, fine with me. She stopped going but stupidly I forgot to let the unit know. I got a text 2 weeks ago asking if she was coming back, I told them no and apologised for forgetting to tell them (they would have been told by DD's friends in any case). She told me I would need to pay for the 6 months she's missed (plus an additional tenner for reasons I can't quite fathom). I asked if I could bank transfer, was told that wasn't possible. I said no problem and I would drop ilthe cash off when I could. Bear in mind this was 2 weeks ago. I was working late on the night brownies was on, the 2nd week it was cancelled. So I've had no opportunity yet.

Yesterday I get an angry text demanding I drop the money off right away, talking as though I wasn't planning to.

First - I don't remember signing any agreement stating the cancellation policy. Just a bit annoyed really and wanted to rant!

JFC how does your kid not go to an activity for 6 months that has a waiting list for members that is run by volunteers without you bothering to let them know they no longer want to attend after 3 or 4 weeks?

If you have been given notice that they are no longer members then it is strange you can’t just arrange a bank transfer or send a cheque but fees are due, it just seems strange that it has been so long without a challenge.

We had parents sporadically sending kids, never paying, they were 4 months behind in the end and we had to give them notice. Poor kids were crying when they showed up one night and were turned away because their membership had been cancelled. Your lot are obviously more relaxed!

Sorry for false brownie excitement!

Also to reiterate this is not a brownie bashing thread in any way. I think brownie leaders all over do a fab job. My daughter still talks about her time in rainbows fondly, was a lovely little group. I think we've been v unlucky in our unit in some ways, but overall I think the leaders are fab (my best friend was a girl guide leader for years). I will pay the money with a thank you note next week (and only slightly gritted teeth )

This particular unit sounds absolutely incompetent

Definitely don't bash brownies - they're delicious

(one for you @Ironmanrocks)

I don't care what class it is - no way would I be paying 6 months. That's ludicrous.

After 4 weeks they should have contacted you and asked to pay a month. 6 months? That's nuts. If they're too stupid/incompetent to work out that someone who stopped coming 6 months ago has quit the club then that's not your fault.

YANBU and I wouldn't pay if I were you. Give them a month's fees and ignore their calls.

Ex Snowy Owl and current school worker.

If I had 50p for every parent that ran up a bill for an optional activity and promised they'd pay, but then never did (promising to pay each time, but never actually getting around to it), well - some of those debts would have been cleared. Nobody does anything now without the cash up front. We've been burned too many times for too much money.

Not all places give Brownies/Guides/etc use of a hall for free. Some Churches do, though, which, with fundraising activities, can make it very low cost. But roughly £2.50 a week isn't that bad compared to other clubs, really.

Brownie leader here

Yes you should’ve told them that she’d left, it’s very rude not to bother. But it happens all the time sadly.

However, they should’ve contacted you much earlier to ask if DD was still coming. We generally chase up after three missed weeks unless the parent has been in touch to let us know. And I was on the case of the iffy ones in January to make sure we weren’t paying the annual subscription for girls who had quit and not told us.

It also sounds like you were very unlucky to have got a Brownie unit that wasn’t offering a proper brownie experience. Brownies should have a balanced and varied program, there’s official guidance on themes that should be covered. It’s also bad to promise girls something and not deliver. Of course sometimes things are cancelled due to weather, or a last minute leader shortage (while you can run some activities with help from young leaders or parent helpers, others need a lot more input from a leader)

I would never expect a parent to pay 6 months of subs unless I had regularly contacted them and they’d kept assuring me the girl still wanted to come to Brownies, as that would’ve prevented me offering the place to another child off the waiting list. And tbh while I would ask for the payment and explain why, I wouldn’t hold out much hope of receiving it.

Exactly what oneforthe pain said. You are disrespectful of others who volunteer their time to make young people's lives better.

It’s very strange that they took 6 months to contact you to see if your dd was coming back. Where is their duty of care? I know they’re volunteers, but not checking on her is unacceptable.

There is an annual subscription of about £35 per child to pay every February to the Guiding Association which covers insurance etc. The Brown Owl most probably paid this out of unit funds thinking your daughter was still a Brownie when you didn't drop a text which would only take one minute to advise Brown Owl your daughter no longer wishes to be a Brownie. It's common courtesy.

As the Guiding Association is run by volunteers, people who also work full time and have families, Brown Owl probably can do without chasing people for subs.

No, I'm not. Real life got in the way, and I apologised for this. I had a horrible trauma I was a mess for a while. Yes I still fucked up as I could have dropped a text, it was not top off my list in my brain and I forgot. Real life does happen to people. This should not make me the shitty disrespectful person some on here are making me out to be.

Also I was an ACF instructor for years after leaving the Army.

no way they would wait that long to try fill the space you get 3 or 4 max weeks missed...so she couldnt fill the space and get more money. so is using you for cash.

In our group we would have contacted you after three missed sessions (with no prior warning) and then offered the place to another girl. Honestly, I would struggle to pay the 6 months because she should’ve also contacted you sooner. 6 months seems like a lot.

I would maybe contact a commissioner (I always get mixed up between division and district) and ask if this is normal and see if you can come to an arrangement with payment. They should also have a banking account so you can pay cheque or bank transfer so I’d query the cash.

Bugger, no chocolate brownies.
Why on earth did they keep her place for six months?? Must've been pretty obvious after a few weeks that she wasn't attending.
Clearly you are unlucky with this pack. The other Brownie leaders above seem very much on the ball with their policies re non attendance

Why don’t you just ask Brown Owl for her address and pop a cheque through her letterbox? I guarantee she won’t live a million miles away! Take DD to be the one to get out of car and deliver cheque. Simple!

You should have paid as soon as you could.

OP tried to. It's really quite bizarre that they wouldn't accept a bank transfer.

My daughters brownies is £1 a week

We pay 130 pounds for the year. We pay for uniforms ourselves. They provide the books and craft materials.

I'm puzzled as to how there is such a difference between locations and units.

Watched a film each night? hmm I've NEVER heard of that. If that's true you are really unlucky in the unit you were in

Doesn't surprise me. DS tried cubs but found that they did little more than mess around paying football each week. He was bored to death and clearly gained nothing from it.

Brownie and Rainbow leader here... personally I think asking for back payment of any kind is totally unreasonable! If it were my unit I'd have chased for a few weeks then sent a message saying I was giving the place away. I can't see how the unit can be in such dire straits that the leader is relying on your daughter's subs and if that is the case then a) even more reason to give the place away and b) there's funds available to help with that.

I do think you should've said something sooner but you know that so 🤷🏼‍♀️ I don't think you're being unreasonable and tbh I'd be asking her for her Commissioners details so you can check that she's aware of/has sanctioned this odd behaviour

I would get your dd to find out from friends still in the Brownies to see if her place had been filled (and if so, when) and at what point, if at all, the Brown Owl or other leader said anything about your dd not being there...

I am also equally amazed by the massive difference in what people are paying! Both to attend Brownies and census payments.... our Brownies pay £30 a term (so £90 a year) and the census is £26 per person payable in February. So for the Spring term we just take the hit and make sure we've budgeted.

Sorry OP, not at all relevant to your post, just surprised at what I'm reading on the thread!

Another Guider here. After 3 weeks, I would have contacted the parent to see if their daughter would be returning. Waiting for 6 months is daft.

It does sound like the Unit Leader has paid census for your daughter (like others have said, ours was around the £35 mark per Member) and, with rent, craft, new programme resources etc she's trying to claw back the subs she could've made by offering your daughter's place to another girl.

However, it seems there are big issues in the Unit (a film every week?!) and maybe this is symptomatic of financial issues, lack of resources or little help running the Unit. Or, an issue in the Leader's personal life you're not aware of, making chasing parents for communication & payments difficult. Contacting the District Commissioner (details should be on your Brownie Started Form) may be helpful, even if you are not returning.

It is frustrating having to chase parents - tomorrow i have to chase subs for this term for 10 girls, and that's offering payment by bank transfer, cheque and cash!. Plus contact another who hasn't bothered come to a meeting this term (and they'll be at their third missed week by the next meeting). And that's on top of system admin, prepping activities, planning 2 camps, 1 sleepover, a County event and a Pack Holiday (running 4 Units due to lack of volunteers!)... I'm a lowly full time Mum of two, working full time, elderly parents & my own chronic illness, thank goodness my Husband volunteers too! But I do it to offer over 100 girls Guiding opportunities each week they wouldn't have otherwise.

I'm not unique, all Leaders are masters at juggling our Guiding and personal lives. But we're not blooming psychic - let us know if there are problems or you no longer need the space!

I would be asking for an invoice & writing a cheque. The cash thing is ridiculous! And suspicious.
I'd also be double checking this with the girl guide association as surely their policy isn't to wait 6 months?!